Normalizing question

[fiveyearslater]

Opening a mp3 file of any professionally recorded band in Cool Edit Pro, I see that almost the whole song reaches a very high volume, -1db or so.. While mastering my songs I always notice a lot of peaks, a lot volume differences.. When I try to get a constant high volume level by compressing the whole song, it sounds all very unnatural and ugly.

What can I do to get a constant high volume such as in pro studios? Should I compress more in indivual tracks, compress the whole song, or is there another solution?

Thanx!
Robin

[Perfectspace]

My thoughts would run along the lines of a Multiband Mastering Limiter. Not a perfect solution and easy to abuse. But may give you better results than using a compressor. Use carefully and you may get some joy.

There are quite a few out there but the one I use is here - http://www.db-audioware.com/dbm.htm - which I find very easy to use and read.

Cheers
Perfectspace

[shackrock]

it's called mastering done by proffessionals. they spend a lot of time making it get as loud as they can - so it's the loudest shit on the radio.

not really NEEDED to do by people like us, but it's nice to not have to crank up your voloume knob so much more when you pop in your cd, ha!

loads of compression, and some limiting perhaps too.

what's even more intesting is that with certain albums, the engineers do such a great job they LET it clip, but it's ust not audiable. For example, the 50 cent CD. I ripped a track off that and put it in vegas, and it clips all over the place! up to about 2db over sometimes, of course - its not audible.

[Chibi Nappa]

Don't worry about it. Just crank up your volume knob to listen to your own stuff. I wish the pros weren't so loud actually.... That volume comes at a pretty big sound quality price. Notice how CD's from 1990 on back are a little quiet? That's not because they couldn't make 'em loud back then, it's because it's not a good idea to make 'em any louder than that.

But if you must have it that loud....
Compress most of your individual tracks when mixing. Compress your drum sub-mix on top of that. Compress your final 2 track mix. Cut a lot of bass out since bass takes up most of your headroom space. Then finally limit the hell out of it.

[fiveyearslater]

Thanx! I'm gonna try it all..

[Massive Master]

I hate the loudness wars. Work on making everything sound good using judicious compression and limiting during mixing. Compress the stereo buss only if you actually need it - Never just for sheer volume's sake. Leave that for mastering. Even if you're mastering it yourself, give yourself some room to work. Once it's permanently loud, it's permanently unworkable for the most part.

There. That's my polite rant for the day.

[fluxburn]

I make dance music so I compress everything. In popular music compression is just part of the sound period. You have to compress everything. The thing is, I believe you are supposed to compress the track first, then add reverb. Last you should multiband compress the track to balance out the levels.

[masteringhouse]

Originally Posted by fiveyearslater

What can I do to get a constant high volume such as in pro studios? Should I compress more in indivual tracks, compress the whole song, or is there another solution?

Thanx!
Robin

If you want pro results, you need pro gear. Look at the major mastering studios and you will find gear like the Weiss DS1, Waves L2, Crane Song STC-8, Manley, etc. You simply cannot get the same results with $100 plug-ins. It's similar to asking how can I make my vocals sound like they were recorded with a U47 through a Neve Pre with my Mackie board and Radio Shack mike. It ain't gonna happen. I've found that the amount of time I put into engineering a project is inversely proportional to the quality of the gear. In other words, the better the gear the less you have to work at getting a great sound.

This is one of the reasons why most Pro studios send material out to be mastered. The gear and environment at a mastering studio is dedicated to the mastering process. In addition, a seasoned mastering engineer has worked on a large number of albums and has a good feel for what can be done with the material, good knowledge and experience with mastering equipment, as well as supplying an objective ear.

That said, if you want to try it yourself, the first thing that I would get is an L2 (plug-in or hardware). They are easy to use (and abuse) but it will get you one step further. Next buy the best compressor that you can afford. This will work double duty for cutting/mixing and mastering.

Multi-band compression should really only be used when there are problematic frequencies that are dynamic dependent. Things like de-essing and controlling the level of a bass or kick after a mix. They can also be used to bring out certain parts of a mix, but it's better to remix and only do this when a remix isn't possible.

So in summary, if you want PRO results, you'll need to spend several grand on gear to do it yourself, or send your material out (for far less money) to a reputable mastering engineer. If you want to get reasonable results at home, you'll probably still be spending more money than you would for a good ME, but at least buy something that will be useful for more than one purpose.

[fiveyearslater]

Yeah I know I probably won't get pro results.. I just try to get the best results possible, comparing my sound with the sound I want to achieve.

But what's L2? Could you explain that?

[Massive Master]

The Waves L2 Ultramaximizer - It's a "loud" machine. 2-space, black with pretty yellow & red lettering if memory serves... Great dithering hardware & a wonderful brickwall limiter IF IT'S NOT ABUSED.

There's a fairly expensive plugin version also (www.waves.com) that's pretty popular.

Unfortunately, it's arguably the most abused plug available.

[NL5]

"fairly inexpensive plugin"?

I can't find the L2 on thier site...the "mastering " bundle of plugins is $1800.

L2 Hardware is $2400.

[fluxburn]

L2 is really nice for mastering a mix. Also the pluging Linmb is a great eq that has 5 bands. These are really nice plugins, the waves mastering bundle. In fact, I just use the mastering plugings only for my music work. I compress with the L2 each track, and in addition use it on the master bus as a compressor/limiter. There is also a nice multiband compressor that is good for balancing out the bass or highs, but that can just be done in the mix I agree.

[Blue Bear Sound]

Originally Posted by fluxburn

I compress with the L2 each track, and in addition use it on the master bus as a compressor/limiter.

I presume you meant to add "if the track needs it" -- it would be pretty bad form to add compression to each track whether it's required or not...............

[masteringhouse]

Originally Posted by Blue Bear Sound

I presume you meant to add "if the track needs it" -- it would be pretty bad form to add compression to each track whether it's required or not...............

Let alone brickwall limiting to each track!

The L2 is best used during mastering to tame stray transients. I wouldn't use this plug-in at all during mixing as a general rule.

[chessrock]

It's the tits on drums.

[Massive Master]

Originally Posted by NL5

"fairly inexpensive plugin"?

I can't find the L2 on thier site...the "mastering " bundle of plugins is $1800.

L2 Hardware is $2400.

You've got to read that again... "fairly EXPENSIVE plugin"

[NL5]

oooops....

[fluxburn]

that is pretty funny, I just realized that using L2 brick wall limits the tracks lol. A compressor does a different job altogether wow. I thought L2 was just a compressor, whoops.

[masteringhouse]

Originally Posted by NL5

"fairly inexpensive plugin"?

I can't find the L2 on thier site...the "mastering " bundle of plugins is $1800.

L2 Hardware is $2400.

As far as the plugins, it will depend on if you want the TDM/native or both versions. If you don't have Pro Tools the TDM version won't be of any benefit.

Look around and you can find the Masters Bundle for a reasonable price see:

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/...se_pid/704150/

$680 for an L2, two high quality EQs, and a multiband-compressor isn't bad. While it won't make you an "instant mastering engineer" at least you will have some tools to get you started.

[helyfede]

The real problem is that you pay for what you get.
With bad and often inexpensive plugins you'll never reach the quality and the beautifull sound of commercial cds.
When after listening your preferite cd at home and put on yours ..ohh noo!!

So if you want to be more happy with mastering is necessary to use serious plug in.

Plug as ozone and t racks can help you ,but comparing to other plug ..., For me they reach saturation too much early.Under the 0 there's other sound to put in...

Use serious plugin.

First solution.

1-put a denoiser as first in chain.(x-noise Waves or Sony noise reduction)
2-put a desser in second to compress a little only very hight freq
2b-if you want ad reverb..or stereo exp (good ones as TC mega reverb or Renaissance reverb for me the best of all)
3-insert the Waves lin eq broadband and eq your final mix listening and comparing always with good commercial cd.
4-insert Waves LIM pul down the master compression(in the preset Adaptive Multi Electro Mastering) untill the line begin to dance like a shake in the middle of the blue area.
5-insert the l2 ultramaximizer, pull down the reductor until the reduction dance near 6db.

You have done the play..readjust to obtain a good sound.

Second solution(that I prefer) using the beautifull TC powercore

1-put a denoiser(waves Xnoise) as first in chain
2-put a desser in second to compress a little only very hight freq
2b-if you want ad reverb..or stereo exp (good ones as TC mega reverb or Renaissance reverb for me the best of all).
3-insert TCeq in your final mix listening and comparing always with good commercial cd.
4-insert Masterx3 (5 is much difficult to use,and the division of 5 band compressor not always sound better of the 3).

4-(b) if you want you can use TC tl ,a vintage finalizer ..it seems sound higher but it is difficult to see or listen the very limit.



With these two solution you will reach the dynamics and the volume as commercial cd (as more of them are made with these type of solution).

If you want to insert other effect as reverb or spatial enhancer.. use very good reverb and place always before the finalizer.