Suggest A Mixer

[Confusitron]

My brother will be starting a band project this summer. We're looking to invest in a mixer. This band will probably consist of up to two guitarists, a bassist, a keyboardist, two vocalists, and a drummer. We would like to have the ability to hook all these things up on the same mixer at the same time. Maybe that will not be possible... Could anyone suggest a mixer fitting for this number of instruments? I am not completely sure about a price range at the moment. I would guess that a twenty to twenty-four channel mixer would be appropriate. Thank you.

[Massive Master]

There's about a zillion of them to choose from -

Could you give us a handle on the budget? Will they want it to double as a recording console?

[noisedude]

Some ideas -

Yamaha MG range - fabulous for the price but less extensive range than the dreaded...
Behringer UB range - wouldn't recommend them but the UB2442 might suit you ... I would tend to avoid the bigger ones cos there's so much more to go wrong with them.
Mackie - if you have more money ... you could go second hand
Soundcraft / Allen and Heath / Anyone else - 'proper' mixers ... second hand can work a treat, I saw an Allen and Heath 16ch with flightcase and recent service go for £200 the other day ... but that's not typical

[Confusitron]

Originally Posted by Massive Master

There's about a zillion of them to choose from -

Could you give us a handle on the budget? Will they want it to double as a recording console?

Hm... Price range... I'm thinking up to $1200. We would like it less, though. Yes, it will double as a recording console.

Originally Posted by noisedude

Some ideas -

Yamaha MG range - fabulous for the price but less extensive range than the dreaded...
Behringer UB range - wouldn't recommend them but the UB2442 might suit you ... I would tend to avoid the bigger ones cos there's so much more to go wrong with them.
Mackie - if you have more money ... you could go second hand
Soundcraft / Allen and Heath / Anyone else - 'proper' mixers ... second hand can work a treat, I saw an Allen and Heath 16ch with flightcase and recent service go for £200 the other day ... but that's not typical

I don't know anything about the Yamaha stuff. Their mixers don't look bad.

I was considering a Behringer, but I am unsure of that since they get bashed so often... It doesn't seem like they would be bad.

I guess I have considered all of those, but Mackie and Allen & Heath seemed about the least likely.

[noisedude]

Behringer ain't bad but their reliability is the worst ... and if I was looking to invest in a 'real' mixer I wouldn't want a liability. Allen and Heath are the real deal ... I would probably take a Yamaha MG over a Mackie because they're very similar for very dissimilar prices.

[HangDawg]

Shell out the thousand bucks and get the Allen Heath mix wizard. I think I'm gonna get one for the live stuff.

[Ed Dixon]

What other gear are you trying to get with the same $. Bands starting up usually need amps, mics, speakers, cables, effects, etc.

My experience with Behringer mixers has been very good, expecially for live use. The Behringer MX2442A Eurodesk Mixer looks like a pretty good unit for the size you outlined.

Ed

[noisedude]

I disagree - seriously do not get an MX for recording ... noisy pieces of crap. There are some great Soundcraft and A+H bargains to be had on ebay usually - make your money go further than a Behringer board.

[Ed Dixon]

Originally Posted by noisedude

I disagree - seriously do not get an MX for recording...

It sounds like they are talking about live use, but that was not clear.

My experience with Behringer has been good for both cases, but clearly opinions vary greatly in this area.

Ed

[noisedude]

Originally Posted by Confusitron

Yes, it will double as a recording console.

My opinion = poor sound, poor build, poor value. I don't know how anyone who's heard the Yamahas for the same money can disagree ... but they do

[Ed Dixon]

I think we're on opposite sides of this one. I have a number of different Behringer mixers and have just about the total opposite opinion, based on my experiences with them. Each has had very good sound, been very solid, and represented (at least to me) a very good value.

Perhaps you have had some bad experiences with them, but I have seen exactly the opposite. I have used them in 3 different bands and 2 different churches, as well as in a home recording setup. Clearly opinions and mileage vary...

I have also worked with Machie, Yamaha, SoundCraft, and a few others. They also worked well.

Ed

[noisedude]

Fair enough. I'm only a low-end gear user and to me they represent poor value for what else you can get. I used to use an MX802 for recording, then bought a UB1204 for the extra pres. I've used both in live setups. The MX died a while back and the 1204 is 14 months old and has spent 13.5 of that in the box, the Tape In doesn't work and one of the stereo channels has gone. I asked about warranty repairs and the shop said, "well we sent some of 8 months ago that haven't come back ... have you considered a new one?". Whatever!

[Ed Dixon]

I think we're on opposite sides of this one. I have a number of different Behringer mixers and have just about the total opposite opinion, based on my experiences with them. Each has had very good sound, been very solid, and represented (at least to me) a very good value.

Perhaps you have had some bad experiences with them, but I have seen exactly the opposite. I have used them in 3 different bands and 2 different churches, as well as in a home recording setup. Clearly opinions and mileage vary...

I have also worked with Machie, Yamaha, SoundCraft, and a few others. They also worked well.

Ed

[noisedude]

Why did you re-post?

[Ed Dixon]

Did not intend to do so. First time the system said it was busy and to try again later. I did that, only to find 2 posts.

Ed

[distortedrumble]

ya know.....normally i would jump in and start defending behringer....but we all know my position lol. behringer is good, cheap and effective...i dont have the reliability problems that some other people have. all my behringer equipment works just fine....I'm looking into getting a new one though.
http://www.americanmusical.com/item-...2442FXPRO.html
or
http://www.americanmusical.com/item-...3242FXPRO.html

for larger projects....i'm still shopping around though

[Confusitron]

Would anyone suggest a Peavey mixer? I am considering a used Yamaha or Mackie, though.

[TexRoadkill]

Originally Posted by distortedrumble

behringer is good, cheap and effective...

One out of three aint bad.

A buddy of mine bought a small berry mixer for his live rig and I've had the displeasure of using it a few times. The mic preamps are just boring and lifeless. Using the same PA speakers and mics through a small Roland VM3100 or Soundcraft Ghost is a HUGE difference. It's like there is a blanket over the speakers going when we go through the berry.

[Ed Dixon]

Originally Posted by TexRoadkill

One out of three aint bad.

It sounds like your experience might be with a unit with problems, which can of course occur for any brand.

I regularly use 4 different Behringer mixers in live situations. This experience has been over the last 4 years. On some jobs, a Mackie is used. Other than the number of inputs available, no difference in sound that any of us can hear occurs. One application, which occurs every weekend, involves both a high end Mackie and a small Behringer. Moving vocal mics from one to the other results in no difference in sound that any one can hear through either speakers or headphones.

Not a single one has ever had a problem in any form or fashion. These are units that have been hauled, setup, tore down, dropped, etc over many years and gigs.

So my experience as a purchaser, owner, and user of multiple units over multiple years in multiple situations seems to show that the comments of distortedrumble of "Behringer is good, cheap and effective..." appear accurate.

There are clearly better mixers, and lots of more expensive mixers. Other mixers may have features and options not available in Behringer that are needed. Each has to make their decision on various criteria.

Ed

[shevsound]

I bought a brand new Mackie 24 8. I love it, very nice desk, packed with features. However.... within a week of using it, one if the jack sockets snapped inside so I had to ship it back to Mackie UK. I was gutted. They repaired it quick enough though. But the point is, I did nothing wrong to cause this (just so happened that the jacks I were using didnt agree with the desk). Im just glad it was still under guarentee.

If you are buying second hand large desks - bear in mind that due to the fact that alot of the internals are PCBs, the whole unit has to be shipped back for repair. It might be worth checking with the repairer on prices before you commit to a 2nd hand desk.

I have also hear horror stories about Behringer external power supplies, but cannot verify these as I have only used Behringer desks - not owned one.

[noisedude]

Originally Posted by Ed Dixon

It sounds like your experience might be with a unit with problems, which can of course occur for any brand.

Uh ... no. They're just rubbish.

Originally Posted by Ed Dixon

Moving vocal mics from one to the other results in no difference in sound that any one can hear through either speakers or headphones.

Why take out your poorly trained ears on unsuspecting newbies? Cos if you're seriously suggesting that a Mackie sounds no better than a Behringer then you've just discredited your own opinions.

They're cheap, disposable crap ... fine for those with ears so bad they can't tell the difference, but I can now after a couple of years of listening, so why inflict it any further.

Anyhow, live isn't the problem. If you're using these for recordings, it's not so much that you will hear 'problems', but you'll come back on here going, "How come my mixes sound a bit dull and lifeless?" and, "When I put everything together, there's just too much hiss, when I take that out it ruins the whole sound".

[shevsound]

Are Behringer really that bad? Ive never been attracted to using their desks but I certainly know that if I had to work with an unfamiliar desk I would prefer it to be a Behringer with 4-band and XLR out rather than some dusty, unknown bit of kit or something that just didnt have the features to do a good basic recording.

I used to think that Soundcraft were pretty "respectable" and so I bought an M12 (mainly for the direct channel outs and the SPDIF mix out), but when I upgraded my monitoring system, the cross talk and noise floor from the desk were appauling!

I dont think its a safe rule of thumb to judge such complex pieces of hardware by the manufacturer. I feel more comfortable giving honest comments on pieces of euipment that I own and work with on a regular basis rather than starting - for example a "Anti Soundcraft" bombardment based on my experiences of only one of their desks.

[noisedude]

Originally Posted by shevsound

Are Behringer really that bad? Ive never been attracted to using their desks but I certainly know that if I had to work with an unfamiliar desk I would prefer it to be a Behringer with 4-band and XLR out rather than some dusty, unknown bit of kit or something that just didnt have the features to do a good basic recording.

Of course! But that's not the comparison here. Behringer or Yamaha? Behringer or Mackie? That's a different question.

Originally Posted by shevsound

I used to think that Soundcraft were pretty "respectable" and so I bought an M12 (mainly for the direct channel outs and the SPDIF mix out), but when I upgraded my monitoring system, the cross talk and noise floor from the desk were appauling!

Not used it, sounds like a stinker though!! Could of course be to do with other things like funny mains supply ... my computer makes every stereo in the house hiss!

Originally Posted by shevsound

I dont think its a safe rule of thumb to judge such complex pieces of hardware by the manufacturer. I feel more comfortable giving honest comments on pieces of euipment that I own and work with on a regular basis rather than starting - for example a "Anti Soundcraft" bombardment based on my experiences of only one of their desks.

So you wouldn't, for example, listen to a review of a computer component? Because that would be generalising?

If you think I'm interested in Anti-Anything then you're still not hearing me. I'm a student - I'm way too skint to cut off my nose, if it's good value then I'm interested. I twice made the mistake of thinking Behringer mixers represented good value, and twice have had to realise their general shiteness. This isn't defectiveness (although both developed faults which were), but compared to other mixers of similar or identical price they just don't hold up.

Have you ever felt the weight of a Mackie against a Behringer? That's the weight of the extra casing, which equals protection for your components. Seriously, even one of those little Tapco Mackie-lites weigh more.

I'm going to pick up a little UB502 for onstage monitoring of my keys when I'm playing at church. The PA ain't amazing so there'll probably be no audible difference, and having a little master EQ nearby can't hurt. But I'm not putting it in my recording chain ... not when I've saved so much to get it out to start with ...

[Ed Dixon]

Originally Posted by noisedude

Uh ... no. They're just rubbish.

Why take out your poorly trained ears on unsuspecting newbies? Cos if you're seriously suggesting that a Mackie sounds no better than a Behringer then you've just discredited your own opinions.

They're cheap, disposable crap ... fine for those with ears so bad they can't tell the difference, but I can now after a couple of years of listening, so why inflict it any further.

Your have your opinion and others have theirs. I'll match my ears with anyone else. I know nothing about your experience, but I have been doing this for about 40 years. You would be better served to offer your opinions based on your experience and avoid making claims about others who you know little or nothing about.

What I am saying is that when compared using both speakers and headphones, no one could tell the difference. This includes a test involving multiple people who do sound. You may not want to believe that, but that is what occurred. That is not to say that this is always the case, but it was in this instance.

Ed

[shevsound]

Originally Posted by noisedude

So you wouldn't, for example, listen to a review of a computer component? Because that would be generalising?

Not quite sure what you mean there - I would listen to a review on a product that the reviewer had tested - but I would'nt go on opinion of the company.

Please dont take the "anti" thing as a direct assault. Just that ive only been posting on here for a couple of days and the discussions seem to turn to camps of followers of each brand bombarding each other with "Beh****er suck" etc all too quickly. I can imagine being a newbie and being uncomfortable buying a certain piece of gear because of "gear wars" on forums like this.

Must say though - you only really notice the problems with the budget products when you move up to something a little better. Personally I dont hold behringer in high regard, simply because certain other brands do it better. But im gonna be need some DIs for a project in June and Behringer are gonna come to my wallet's rescue with their very reasonably priced Ultra DIs.

I am guilty of basing my purchases on company reputation myself - as with the Soundcraft M12 (yes it was a stinker - though it seemed fine through my previous monitors (Tannoy HiFi speakers) and worked for what I needed it for back then. Also, the next time I upgrade my monitors and ditch my Tannoy Reveals (with their slight lack of low end) and go for some Mackie 824s - okay I can monitor perfectly well on the Tannoys but on a AB comparisson I know that I prefer the Mackies, just at the time I was buying - the Tannoys were the best solution to fit with my budget.

I have spent time dicussing mixers with live engineers who hate Mackie and love Allen & Heath ("Grief" as they are sometimes referred to). I am glad I wasnt swayed by their opinion and horror stories and love my Mackie equipment (desk and multitracker) to bits. Apart from the one problem I had with the jack sockets, they have proved themselves to be reliable and hard wearing.