Why do I have to mix on monitors?

[ScooterMcTiny]

Before you crucify me, I understand I need to mix on monitors. Well not need, but you know what I mean. It's my parents that don't. I know what I've read, and it makes sense to be, but with them, I need concrete data or reasons why it's better to mix on monitors rather than hifi's. Thanks for your help,

Jackson

[Blue Bear Sound]

Well you have 2 choices... mix on monitors/speakers, or mix on headphones.

Have them read this article (Whad'ya Mean I Can't Mix With Headphones????) for reasons why headphone mixing is not really viable.... that means the only choice left is monitors!

[ScooterMcTiny]

Thanks Blue Bear, I will have them do that. But I guess more of what I'm looking for is the choice between speakers/actual studio monitors and why they are better. Thanks again, Jackson

[strmkr]

There's a great line at the end of Bear's article about "trying to hammer a nail with a screwdriver". Same thing applies to the difference between stereo speakers and studio monitors. Stereo speakers are designed to give a pleasurable listening experience in your living room. Most stereo speakers are designed to accentuate certain parts of the frequency range, like hyping the bass or highs etc. In other words, to make the sound sound a particular way.

Nearfield monitors are designed to give a neutral response in your control room. The goal of a good set of monitors is to present the sound as it is without adding any hype or coloration so you can make well informed sonic decisions about what your'e recording and mixing. The end result,hopefully, is your mix translating well to all the different playback systems it is played on.

Good luck!

[TexRoadkill]

Tell your parents that with regular speakers it will take you longer to mix because you will have to be constantly checking your mixes on different systems. With real monitors and a treated room you should be able to get a more accurate mix in less time.

The end result is that with real monitors your parents won't have to listen to the same song over and over as many times.

[chessrock]

Originally Posted by strmkr

The end result,hopefully, is your mix translating well to all the different playback systems it is played on.

He nailed it, Scooter.

What's likely going to happen when you first start mixing on hi-fi speakers is your mixes will sound great on those speakers, but then when you try playing it in your friend's car or your girlfriend's walkman, it's going to sound way different to you -- and probably not as good.

[skim]

How much truth is there in the notion that you can mix to a reference song, in place of expensive monitors?

That is, take a song that you think is great engineering, then play them on your $50 crappy speakers. If your mix sounds crappy in the same way the great song sounds crappy, then you've got a good mix.

Take this question with a grain of salt, you purists out there. Obviously the ideal situation is to go with the monitors. Realistically speaking, how useful can this technique be, and what are some situations where it just flat out won't work?

After all, we listen to music for the most part on crappy speakers.

[chessrock]

Skim,

If your goal is to make things as difficult as possible for yourself because maybe you just need more challenge in your life, then I'd suppose this method might be appealing.

For those of us who like things to be simpler, streamlined and just more effective (maybe we have other things in life that are important), then you're probably better off just going the monitor route.

If you're trying to make mixing decisions based on a monitoring setup that is leaving it's own tailored sonic imprint on the sound, it's going to be very time-consuming and difficult to "learn." Not to say it can't be done, because I know a lot of people who have done some pretty amazing things in their lives . . . but if you've got that kind of time and motivation, why not just use it to make a few extra bucks for a real monitoring system?

Life will be so much simpler for you.


Yes, most people do listen back on crappy speakers, but again the idea is to get your mixes to translate well to as many crappy speakers as possible. Just because they sound fine on one set of crappy speakers doesn't mean it won't sound horrid on another, yet different set of crappy speakers.

[Massive Master]

Realistically, most anything sounds crappy on crappy monitors.

If you're listening to a good mix through monitors that are light in the lows, you could do a mix that's heavy in the lows and you won't be able to hear the difference because the monitors can't reproduce it anyway.

That's just one example - There are more, but time is short.

[Ethan Winer]

Skim,

> How much truth is there in the notion that you can mix to a reference song, in place of expensive monitors? <

None.

There are two different but related problems. One problem is that poor speakers have a poor frequency response, and the distortion is also likely very high too. The other issue, which is just as important, is your room is skewing the response even more than the speakers.

Either way, the main problem with using a good sounding commercial CD as a reference is the skewed room response is frequency dependant. So the reference track will have to be in the exact same musical key to be of any value. Even then, it's poor practice to mix in a room whose low frequency response varies up and down by 30 dB throughout the entre low end.

--Ethan

[distortedrumble]

go ahead and set up a power point presentation at the dinner table....wear a suit and everything. dinner presentations make it look serious

[masteringhouse]

Originally Posted by skim

How much truth is there in the notion that you can mix to a reference song, in place of expensive monitors?

That is, take a song that you think is great engineering, then play them on your $50 crappy speakers. If your mix sounds crappy in the same way the great song sounds crappy, then you've got a good mix.

Take this question with a grain of salt, you purists out there. Obviously the ideal situation is to go with the monitors. Realistically speaking, how useful can this technique be, and what are some situations where it just flat out won't work?

After all, we listen to music for the most part on crappy speakers.

Massive is right.

You can only work with that which you can hear. If the speakers are distorting your perspective on the sound, matching those distortions isn't necessarily going to give you an equivalent product.

To give a different analogy (something I seem to be fond of doing lately). If you were walking down the beach with seriously smudged, scratched, and cracked glasses, what you took for Pamela Anderson may actually be some 90 year old grandmother carrying beachballs.

[Massive Master]

How about trying to smell the difference between red and yellow roses while you have a cold...

[distortedrumble]

.........theres a difference between the smell of yellow and red roses?

[Massive Master]

Picky, picky... Okay -

Trying to smell the difference between roses and daisies in a sewer.

[chessrock]

I did't know they grew in a sewer.

[lpdeluxe]

...or trying to judge a painting framed behind dirty glass.

[masteringhouse]

Originally Posted by Massive Master

How about trying to smell the difference between red and yellow roses while you have a cold...

Massive -

Better to leave the analogies with someone else I think ...

Another question, which sounds better, analogies or digitalies?

[Teacher]

you can mix on whatever you want. if it works it works. but it most likely won't....

[Massive Master]

Originally Posted by chessrock

I did't know they grew in a sewer.

Ah-HA! You're correct! Someone has to put them there.

HOWEVER - The sound that comes from your monitors is put there, also.

Yeah, maybe I just better quit...

[packratlouie]

This is a pretty basic answer. If you mix on monitors which are flat, you are hearing what the audio really sounds like. If you choose monitors(or computer speakers for that matter) which have a high end lift, you will want to compensate for it in your mix by taking down the highs, when in fact they are at the right level, but you cannot tell because of the lift.

The reason you want to mix on studio monitors vs computer speakers is because if you mixon something flat, and then after the mix it is played on something with certain frequency notches, the flatness of the speaker you mixed on will have compensated already. Of course Ethan Winer mentioned an important factor regarding the room dymanics, as with bass you can definitely be hearing incorrect things if your room isnt treated... and we arent talking one or two dB we are talking ten to fifteen. My reccommendation? If you are serious in any way about mixing get a pair of monitors(m-audio studiophile), or a passive pair of tannoy's with a decent alesis amp or something. And if you want to get a better idea of your actual mix, go to Ethan Winer's site and read about using sine waves and an omnidirectional mic to test your rooms bass response. There are a few programs out there which will also calculate frequency nodes in your room where there is a severe drop in dB... just make sure they dont exist where you are mixing... but in all of this, if you want good solid advice ask Ethan Winer.

www.ethanwiner.com

use the search feature on there

[Dioxide]

Ok so what about this ....... I'm what you call a broke ass bitch therfore I can't afford monitors at this time. But I have some really sweet Pioneers and a nice graphic eq is it possible to use the equalizer to flatten them to a truer sound and thus have me some makeshift monitors???? I know this is not the Ideal way to go but I need some thing that can tide me over till the recording fairy pulls all my teeth and leaves me some money.

[Blue Bear Sound]

Originally Posted by Dioxide

Ok so what about this ....... I'm what you call a broke ass bitch therfore I can't afford monitors at this time. But I have some really sweet Pioneers and a nice graphic eq is it possible to use the equalizer to flatten them to a truer sound and thus have me some makeshift monitors????

No... not really.......

[Dioxide]

Thats what I thought (gave it a try though)

[Dioxide]

OK I think I'm able to talk my wife into letting me get a set of monitors using this thread so What I would like to know is what is the difference between active and a passive. I mean I know what active and passive are but what is the difference in the monitor world. The best thing I can find on my budget are a a pair of Samson Resolv 65a's the actives are 299 and the passive are 199.