is midi outdated?

[Veej007]

hey

i'm thinking of splurging on a pretty extensive preamp/poweramp/effects setup. i want to get devices that are all midi controllable so that i can plug them into a behringer floorboard and control everything easily while playing.

not are we talking about a pretty significant chunk of change here, though, it's also going to shape the entire direction of my first ultra-serious rig. that is, if i build my rig up this way, then if one piece goes bad or whatever, i'll have to replace it with a similar device. it'll all be a lot more interrelated than having a few separate guitar amps and pedals.

before i go ahead with this, though, i'd kind of like to get some sense of where music technology might be headed. (yeah, i know, big question). the thing that bugs me is that line6 users have been asking for usb connectivity (and the guitarport already uses one), then there's that gibson digital guitar thing connects with an ethernet cord (i think the variax might do this too)... one of my professors, who specializes in studio technology, sound engineering, and electronic composition, has hinted at the idea that bluetooth might be on the horizon.

let's face it, midi connectivity is not the most efficient thing in the world, and the standard is more than twenty years old. i don't want to sink several thousand dollars into something that is on the verge of being outdated. what do you guys think might be next, and how soon do you expect it to start showing up?

[randyfromde]

MIDI isn't going anywhere. There's so much high-end equipment out there that uses it and when set up properly is so useful, there will always be a demand.

[lykwydchykyn]

MIDI is outdated. But not obsolete. Nothing has yet replaced it, and if anything does, it will take years for the music manufacturers of the world to come together and make a standard on it. That they actually came up with MIDI itself is amazing. MIDI is much much bigger now, and if something were to replace it, even more manufacturers from even more industries would have to come together to make it happen. Heck, the MMA can't even get a MIDI 2.0 spec out. MIDI is old and a bit slow but it still does the job. Chances are whatever you get (fx, recorders, synths, etc) is going to be dated and obsolete before MIDI is.

[biotek]

remeber kids that there are 2 unused pins on the standard MIDI cable... so the current format isn't going anywhere... when it gets to the point that we need to send more information down the pipe... it's just going to be a matter of utilising those extra pins.. (MIDI was designed with this in mind)

[moskus]

MIDI was outdated when it was invented. But as mentioned earlier: There's no competition.

[biotek]

how is it outdated?? give me some evidence don't just make definitive statements without backing them up... in my opinion there's nothing wrong with the current MIDI protocolls... but i could be wrong.. please enlighten me

[Warren]

I have met people that love MIDI and I have met those who hate it. Of the ones who hate it, they said they did so because it was not a "live" element in music, its too confusing, it takes away from creativity etc. However, I agree with Randy and Biotek. I play acoustic instruments but have a great time with my electronic instruments as well. If you are able to check out the EQ or REMIX magazines, do it, you will be able to see whats happening in regards to the future of music tech. Personally I think it is amazing.

[vestast]

Originally Posted by biotek

how is it outdated?? give me some evidence don't just make definitive statements without backing them up... in my opinion there's nothing wrong with the current MIDI protocolls... but i could be wrong.. please enlighten me

I agree. Is midi not just 1's and 0's ?

[Garry Sharp]

"I agree. Is midi not just 1's and 0's ?"

It's supposed to be. But just when you're getting the hang of it they throw in the odd 2 just to screw you up

[moskus]

Originally Posted by biotek

how is it outdated??

For example: MIDI cannot send two notes at the same time. It sends one message after another, meaning there will be a (very) small difference in start-times if you strike one chord at the exact same time. Not a big deal if you just play one piano, but let's say you play many instruments through one interface... You get the idea.

And there's been many attempts on correcting things like these, with different degrees of success.

[vestast]

Originally Posted by Garry Sharp

"I agree. Is midi not just 1's and 0's ?"

It's supposed to be. But just when you're getting the hang of it they throw in the odd 2 just to screw you up

Bastards !

[DonF]

Originally Posted by biotek

how is it outdated??

It runs at 31.25 K bits per second (Kbps), which was fast for a serial interface in 1983, but which is laughably slow by today's standards. It might be a simple matter (I'm not an electrical engineer!) to create a new MIDI standard running at something approaching USB 1.0 speeds, and to make this new standard backward-compatible with the old one. This would make the timing anomalies alluded to by moskus much less significant.

[TexRoadkill]

Originally Posted by DonF

It runs at 31.25 K bits per second (Kbps), which was fast for a serial interface in 1983, but which is laughably slow by today's standards.

That and you're limited to 16 Channels with only 128 streams and steps of resolution. Midi should be at least as fast as USB and 128 should be replaced with at least 1024.

[lykwydchykyn]

Originally Posted by DonF

It runs at 31.25 K bits per second (Kbps), which was fast for a serial interface in 1983, but which is laughably slow by today's standards. It might be a simple matter (I'm not an electrical engineer!) to create a new MIDI standard running at something approaching USB 1.0 speeds, and to make this new standard backward-compatible with the old one. This would make the timing anomalies alluded to by moskus much less significant.

As I alluded to, the problem with a new MIDI spec is not technical, but political. Getting that many manufacturers to agree on a standard is outrageously difficult.

A lot of the "outdated" aspect of MIDI has to do with things "under the hood". For example, when you send a patch change, it can only be 0-127. If you have more than 128 patches, you have to put them in banks and send two controller messages to change banks. And changing banks is not standardized because it's not part of the original MIDI spec. So every manufacturer has a different method of changing patch banks. Sure, you can get around it with lots of software and so forth, but ultimately it's kind of a kludgy solution. It would be better if we had the capability to send large numbers for patch changes. Especially since MIDI has such a slow data tranfer rate, the more data you have to send the more latency you are going to experience.
I mean, when it comes to sequencing 16 tracks on a couple of synth modules, MIDI is usually adequate. But when you get into Midi Machine Control, Sample Dump Standard, Midi Time Code, not to mention all the things that COULD be implemented easily into MIDI with today's faster connections and more powerful processors, MIDI is pretty primitive.
I'm not sure the extra pins on the MIDI cable will really be useful in expanding MIDI's capabilities. MIDI is a serial protocol, making it a parallel protocol could lead to some trouble, especially with longer cables. I'd rather just see a software protocol that could do what MIDI does over a standard USB or Firewire connection.

[James Argo]

Then we're gonna have to change the title of this forum... USB forum?

[moskus]

That's easy: The MIDI forum...

It will still be MIDI, but in a new version. You still call it a computer even it's not the same that was released in the mid 80s, right?

[juststartingout]

Originally Posted by Veej007

not are we talking about a pretty significant chunk of change here, though, it's also going to shape the entire direction of my first ultra-serious rig. that is, if i build my rig up this way, then if one piece goes bad or whatever, i'll have to replace it with a similar device. it'll all be a lot more interrelated than having a few separate guitar amps and pedals

For what you are talking about speed isn't an issue and midi will do well. After all, you are only talking about doing effects selecting.

If you were talking about transfering data or controlling sound generators (keyboards), I might look at other alternatives.

[tedluk]

It's supposed to be. But just when you're getting the hang of it they throw in the odd 2 just to screw you up

How can a "2" be odd?

Ted

[neon glow]

Assuming that MIDI has enough power to handle one musical instrument, instead of making up a new protocol, it should be easier to make a cheap MIDI -> USB interface and connect any amount of them to USBs, one for each instrument.
(This and this for example. Is there any limit on the amount of those? I don't think so.)

[neon glow]

By the way, here's something else: http://www.edirol.com/products/help/fpt.html

This is one of the solutions, which is utilized in this device.