Rap Vocal Help

[In Tune Audio]

I need some help, I'm working on a rap cd for a customer right now, and I'm having a bit of a problem with the rapping having a muddy sort of sound, as if there were too much bass. The vocals just aren't as clear as I would like. I don't know if what I just said makes much sense.
The signal Chain is

A Rode NT1 (I've tried a AKG C3000 but that made it worse)

into a Joe Meek VC3

into Tascam DM24 mixer (I've even tried skipping the Meek and going right into the board, helped a little)


Through the RME Hammerfall card

into Sonar.


I'm compressing it using the 1176 on the UAD 1

And even EQing just hasn't helped get the vocal as clear as I'd like. It's not prozimity effect, because he's about 7 inches from the mic, and I've tried some other placements as well. I'm tracking him in a 5 foot wide, by 5 foot long and 8 feet high vocal booth, with acoustical foam on the walls but not the ceiling.

I know the signal chain is medicore, but if someone could help with some tips it would be much appreciated. I don't know if its the gear or the room or what.

Thanks

[distortedrumble]

well is his voice bassy? in sonar.....try going to the eq on sonar and bringing down the bass around 250hz mark. also....if the rapper is feeling the song and is intense in it....his voice is a little higher than if hes going through the motions....i have the problem with my voices being boomy on tracks...my condensor mic has a low end roll off.....if yours has that make sure thats on.

[chessrock]

Is your recording space properly treated, accoustically, to deal with standing waves and the problems they might cause?

If not, or if you don't even know what a standing wave is, then I hope you're not charging much.

[In Tune Audio]

Hey Chess rock, screw you. First off I know what a standing wave is, and when some one is coming and asking for help (Which is what I thought this forum was for) you don't have to be an ass. I put in the original post, that the walls are treated. Instead of just acting all arrogant why don't you read the original post. And for your information, I'm not just some guitar player want a be, I make my living as a piano tuner and rebuilder, so if you want to talk about waves, and frequency, and really any sound theory, I'm game.

Distorted Drummer, I appreciate the help. Hie voice is a little bassy. The NT1 don't have a roll off, and eqing hasn't helped like I would like. I'm just wondering if there's something that I'm missing.

[distortedrumble]

well heres what i do with my voice....dont have his voice really loud in the mix....background music...see if you can get a good stereo spread so his voice has space down the middle....the closet thing i can think of is Notorius B.I.G if you listen to the songs.....hes not as loud as the rest of the music and things are usually away from the center so his voice has it to himself..also if he is backing up his own vocal...have those slightly panned left and right. its going to be bassy and i havent figure out how to get rid of that on mine. now you can always take drastic measures and tell him to wear tighty whities...or just kick him in the nuts.

chessrock....whats a standing wave?

[In Tune Audio]

Thanks for that Distorted!

All his vocals are doubled, and some whisper type tracks, like you mentioned. I tried the stereo spread idea on one of his earlier tracks, but I'm gonna try that again. I know that that would help him sit in the mix better, but that hasn't been to much of a problem, mainly just the bassyness.

But I appreciate all the help!

[chessrock]

Originally posted by In Tune Audio
Hey Chess rock, screw you. First off I know what a standing wave is, and when some one is coming and asking for help (Which is what I thought this forum was for) you don't have to be an ass.

I thought I was being helpful. Room design and treatment can often be major factors in muddy-sounding (and overly bassy) vocals and instruments.

You're recording in a 5' by 5' 8' enclosed space with nothing but accoustic foam?

Ouch.

Rather than get defensive, you should start reading up on this stuff, and try and come up with a more optimal solution to what I'm assuming is an accoustical nightmare you're dealing with.

Or you can just assume I'm being an ass and ignore me . . . and you can keep on getting muddy, boxy-sounding vocals. It's your choice.

[RD423]

It's his voice because I've noticed that about my voice on some songs I make my voice kind of high and it comes out clear but on other songs when I make it deep/bassy sounding it sounds what you call "muddy" it's just his voice there is no way to fix it

[bleyrad]

chessrock's right. acoustic foam is hurting just as much as it's helping your space - it's absorbing like hell from around 600Hz up, and doing next to nothing beneath that. the end result is that you have a whole bunch of bass floating around in that room, and no mids or treble left to balance it out. things become boomy.

research acoustic treatment.

[RD423]

Yep that's one thing that this guy told me depending on the space you have that less foam is better than to much because to much will dry it out

[Mr_Silent_One]

Listen this aint the best advice but if the voice is to boomy, you have to lower the bass. Do you have a external mixer? if you do, then lower the bass and the mids. then get into the dynamic equalizer (in your recorder) and lower the bass there and the mids. bass and mids are the left hand side sliders. If there are 10 sliders, the bass and mid bass are like the first 3-7 sliders on the left. hope this helps. also keep about 8 inches away from the mic when singing. also do you use a tube mic (condensor)? if you do, dont have the diaphram facing (the round plate inside the mic) directly in front of you. turn it about 1/4 of a turn so that the diaphram doesnt take the full force of the "sound pressure level" from your voice. if you need a little more help feel free to email me at andrew.banuelos@carson.army.mil

[mstudio1224@aol.com]

From the JoeMeek, check your setting, THRESHOLD & RATIO make sure they're all at 0 (start from there) tell him to test the mic

On the Tascam DM24, if your going analog or digital, make sure that DIRECT button is pressed. Also check that the EQ is at 0. I presume your going DIGITAL since you said RME Hammerfall, so the DIRECT button and the ADAT OUT should be appropriately set. Check to see if your COMPRESSING also in the DM24, maybe it's doing it TWICE ((1st JOE MEEK, then DM24))

SONAR --- I dont know that software, your on your own, but honestly, EVEN if his ass is BARRY WHITE (long rest the Genius) you should still get a clear signal.

1176 & UAD 1 (you should'nt have to use all of these) maybe on the over all mix, but you just talking about a LEAD RAP VOCAL

If you have to do that much touching up to get it to sound right, something is definately WRONG

[shackrock]

haha, yeah...

i didnt tihnk chessrock was trying to be mean..?? hahaha.

anyway...

the room is your problem. I've had the same problem trying to do vocals in my bathroom room, which is very small and closed.

you need to get in the middle of an open room, and you'll stop getting that muddy sound so much.


and this is SHACKrock by the way....HA.. just kidding man.