Phase out monitors to record vocals?

[nik the barber]

How do you "phase" out monitors so that you can record your vocals with out head phones?

[cordura21]

from what I know:

you change the polarity of the monitors by flipping the cable of one of them. Then you put both monitors on either side of the mic:

Left Monitor ------> Mic <------Right Monitor

They both have to be at the same distance from the mic. I guess it will also help that both sides of the room are pretty symmetrical, and obstacles or whatever are the same. I guess it will also help that you monitor in mono, so the same exact signal comes from both sides.
To make sure you have the same distance you could run a test tone on both monitors and check until it gets cancelled out at the mic. And I also guess that the more indirect sound you have (like reverb form the room) the harder it'll be to make it happen.

Andrés

Edit: you can also change the polarity of the sound with a polarity/phase plugin applied to either the right or left main output, or flipping a cable somewhere else, etc.

[nik the barber]

I'm not sure what you mean by flipping the cable?, and how do you use a test tone. Like how could you tell if the mic is being cancelled out from the sound of the monitors? What is a poloarity/phase plug in?

[grinder]

Originally posted by nik the barber
I'm not sure what you mean by flipping the cable?, and how do you use a test tone. Like how could you tell if the mic is being cancelled out from the sound of the monitors? What is a poloarity/phase plug in?

By flipping the cable, he means, reversing the pos. and neg. wires on the speaker.

I've never heard of this, phasing out the monitors technique, for recording without cans. Can someone explain how it works, what exactly is being cancelled out?

[Massive Master]

It's an old and reasonably effective trick, but the room plays a big part in it also...

One speaker out of phase with the other - A mono mix sent to them with the mic directly centered between. The music will cancel itself out at the mic's position.

It's a pain in the ass, and the room needs to be DEAD like DEAD DEAD for it to work properly. Even the sound bouncing off the vocalist's face will be audible.

I found that having a single monitor in the mic's null area about as good and definitely more controlled.

John Scrip - www.massivemastering.com

[TexRoadkill]

Originally posted by Massive Master
Even the sound bouncing off the vocalist's face will be audible.

That's why this technique is most effective on singers with bushy beards.

[grinder]

Oh, I get it. Sounds like a pain in the ass to setup.

[nik the barber]

I'm still having trouble. How would I use one monitor, and what do you mean by making a mono mix. As in putting the mixer on mono so both monitors are sending out the same sound, and do you think the technique could be pulled off in an empty closet aka vocal booth?

[glynb]

Sounds like a pain...I'll just continue using headphones!!!

[Massive Master]

Mono aux mix -> booth monitor amp -> 2 monitors (1 proper, 1 reversed polarity).

Mic dead center between monitors.

If you can find the perfect point between the monitors, the mic will hear the combination of the in-phase and the put-of-phase signal, which is NOTHING.

[cordura21]

You can use the cable trick: use a cable to measure the distance of the first speaker to the mic, then put the second speaker at the same distance. This one is used to align microphones too, to keep them at the same distance and thus in phase.

I said that you should put the speakers on either side of the mic. You can also try to form a triangle as it was suggested. That way you take advantage of the cardioid pattern on the mic. Cardioid patterns pick less sound from behind.

One last thing: if you're using a computer for record, the phase inverting and mono mixing will be much easier by just using a plugin, instead of doing it by swithing cables,etc. Or maybe it has phase switching an mono buttons directly in the mixer. Here is a plugin that does it for vst hosts like Cubase.

Andrés

[nik the barber]

So does the speakers need tro be facing the mic like this?


m((((((P))))))m

M= monitor, and P= microphone, and (=the
direction of the sound wave


or:


m p m
( (
) )
( (
) (



What is the null postion, Like with using one monitor?

[grinder]

Originally posted by cordura21
You can use the cable trick: use a cable to measure the distance of the first speaker to the mic, then put the second speaker at the same distance. This one is used to align microphones too, to keep them at the same distance and thus in phase.

There is also another old timers trick for this, it's called a tape measure.

[cordura21]

Nik:

Suppose the mic is the center of a clock:

- the mic should be pointing at 6
- the singer should be at 6
- the closer the monitor/s are to 12, the less spill there will be.
- the monitors should be pointing at the mic.

Grinder: I know about the tape measure, but you have a much better chance to have a cable around. On measuring microphone distances when recording drums, the recommendation was to use both drumsticks in line to get the correct distance from the center of the snare, so you see it's a question of practicity.

Cheers, Andrés

[grinder]

Originally posted by cordura21
Grinder: I know about the tape measure, but you have a much better chance to have a cable around. On measuring microphone distances when recording drums, the recommendation was to use both drumsticks in line to get the correct distance from the center of the snare, so you see it's a question of practicity.

Cheers, Andrés

Of course, notice the , after my post.

[nik the barber]

So how can you tell if you phase out the mic. Will there be no signal carring into the mic, or will it be perfectly insync with your recording, and want matter?