"Live band that doesnt play..." poll

[cfw]

Hello, my friend and I talked about this recently so I thought I would ask a larger audience this question. If you knew of a rock band that you had heard on a CD, on the internet, etc and you knew ahead of time that their live performance was only the vocalist singing live with the recorded track playing in the background (kind of like a rock Britney Spears but ya know, better), how many of you would pay to see this band live?


(I didn't know which forum to put this in, hope this is okay.)

[Track Rat]

Not me. Not at gun point. I only pay to see musicians actually play instruments and perform. That's how we gage musicians, by their ability to perform.

[earthboundrec]

I'd be pretty pissed if I actually had paid to see it. There's plenty of free kareoke nights around town... and they usually have drink specials!

[dwillis45]

Maybe, if it was Elvis and he was doing a double bill with Spalding Grey!

[Purge]

Normally that would suck. But this kind of thing isn't so bad with some industrial music. VNV Nation put on one of the best shows I've ever seen, and this was nothing but the singer, a "drummer" (sort of), and one hell of a visual set. I guess it just depends on the kind of music and what you're trying to get out of it. I'd be pissed to see Zakk Wylde trying to "milli vanilli" his guitar licks, but for some other bands/musicans it's not such a big deal.

[glynb]

It could work if it was an 'arty' performance type show, but not if it's a rock show. Rosck is about the performance and the excitiement the performers bring to the live performance. A singer singing to a machine is dead by comparison.

I guess, if you did it in a bar 'for free' then it might not be too bad, you're not ripping anyone off.

I have seen some bands playing along to backing tracks and to be honest most of the (non-musician) audinece didn't give a damn, if there are enough people on stage most of the audience don't even notice if there's a keyboard playing and only gutarists on stage!!

I think lots of people who do home recordings have a similar problem, you can make some fine recordings with overdubs, but then how to play live? Playing along to the machine seems the answer, but it's not really. You have to bite the bullett and get a backing band together (easier said than done).

[ChristopherM]

One of my favorite acts to see live was Warren Zevon (when he was alive). I saw him perform three different ways; with a band (backing band "Something Happens" who were also his opening act), with electronics, and solo acoustic. My favorite were the solo acoustic shows, because he really had to put his heart and soul into it to pull it off.

Electronics and taped backups (even just drum machines) tend to suck the soul out of a performance. This is why nobody watches the guy at the airport bar with the synthesizers and drum machines backing him up, but people will form a crowd on a city street to watch a couple of people play a beat-up guitar and a bucket.

There are some types of music where the electronics are an integral part of the song, but most popular music styles (rock, pop, country, blues, folk, latin, jazz, etc.) are far more "alive" when performed rather than played karaoke-style.

As far as actually paying to see a singer perform karaoke-style. Nope. Wouldn't do it.

[glynb]

Just a point to note...

As most people who will respond to this are themselves musicians I think you can predict what the overwhelming majority view will be!

Sadly, there's a big music audience out there (non musicians) that don't particularly care how the music happens on stage as long as the show is exciting and the perfomers jump about a lot (boy bands, pop combos, some rap artists, what I call song and dance acts). Some of this music just can't be replicated on stage entirely by live musicians - for example where drum machines/loops/samples are used and has to be used as a basis for live musiciancs to play along with.

I blame technology myself!!!

Personaly, If I go to see a live band and I don't see a drum kit on stage i walk straight out...(I don't have a choice, my drinking partner is a drummer and he won't stay!)

[reel buzzer]

Ozzy Osborne's vocals are so unique and awesome that I don't need to see a band play with him.

As far as I'm concerned they can wheel him out onstage in a wheel chair, press play on the tape machine, and let him blair out some serious vocals while he just sits there. I'd pay $20 to see that.

Anyone else - NO.

[lykwydchykyn]

Musicians or not, I suspect people who actually bother to go see live music want to see just that.

There's a big difference between what motivates people to hang out at a local bar/club/coffeehouse to catch a band and what motivates people to get excited when watching TV or seeing celebrities "in person".

You could just do what the big rock acts seem to be doing these days: play the CD and get 4 of your best-looking friends to fake like they're playing the music.

I'll never forget one of the label showcases I did while I was (briefly and unsuccessfully) signed. As the label was about to fold, they poured all their money into teenage girl singers to try to make a fast buck. One of the dear young ladies performed with a "phoney band" and it was so obvious it was appalling. The next morning we sat next to her at a label function...
"Wasn't that concert so cool? That band they got me was awesome!"
She had no clue!

Anyway, I digress...

Ultimately, I wouldn't mind seeing someone who was, say, strumming a guitar or playing a keyboard along with some tasteful backing tracks, I just don't want to see a glorified karaoke show.

[glynb]

Originally posted by lykwydchykyn

There's a big difference between what motivates people to hang out at a local bar/club/coffeehouse to catch a band and what motivates people to get excited when watching TV or seeing celebrities "in person".

Exactly, some people just pay to go to a concert to say that they have seen someone they like and are not too bothered about whether the act plays live or to backing tapes. Like the Ossie fan who posted, not that I can ever imagine Ossie doing that.

Originally posted by lykwydchykyn
You could just do what the big rock acts seem to be doing these days: play the CD and get 4 of your best-looking friends to fake like they're playing the music.

Rock acts? I would have thought the rock acts are the least likely to 'fake it' usualy because they are the people who can actualy play their instruments competently. No, it's usual the teeny pop artists who fake it with backing tracks and their fans are too young and inexpereinced to notice.

Originally posted by lykwydchykyn
I'll never forget one of the label showcases I did while I was (briefly and unsuccessfully) signed. As the label was about to fold, they poured all their money into teenage girl singers to try to make a fast buck. One of the dear young ladies performed with a "phoney band" and it was so obvious it was appalling. The next morning we sat next to her at a label function...
"Wasn't that concert so cool? That band they got me was awesome!"
She had no clue!
[/B]

And that act was...Britney Spears!!!


I was watching the young British "band" 'Busted' on TV with my 16 year old son the other day. Watch out America they are heading your way. They leap about on stage a lot and the sound was really good, but they're so phoney.

I'm pretty convinved that, although they CAN play their instruments for sure, they play along to backing tracks live, it's just too perfect. The kids don't seem to mind and it's very hard to tell the difference anyway.

What's so annoying about all this is that there's no reason why (with major label support) these people couldn't put together a great backing band of top musicians and REALLY play live. It's real penny pinching just to save money by using backing tracks. Grrrr!

[lykwydchykyn]

Originally posted by glynb


Rock acts? I would have thought the rock acts are the least likely to 'fake it' usualy because they are the people who can actualy play their instruments competently. No, it's usual the teeny pop artists who fake it with backing tracks and their fans are too young and inexpereinced to notice.

Well, you'd think that but I'm sorry to say I've seen at least a couple of televised concerts in the last few years by "veteran" rock acts that involved lip-synching (straining my brain to remember who it was I saw... I think one of them was KISS). Yeah, it's USUALLY the teen pop thing, though USUALLY they don't bother with a fake band, just lots of dancers. Ok, so maybe Van Halen isn't lip-synching, but there are some rock artists who are.

Most big-name artists these days will at least tour with recorded "sweetening" tracks (like vocal doubles, bgv's, synth parts, guitar doubles, etc) either played by a sequencer or an ADAT. You don't see quite as much of it in rock, but it's there.

[glynb]

I guess it's a case of where you draw the line?

I mean I suppose most of us would agree that a band miming to a backing track, or singing live to a recorded track was a rip off if it's billed as a live performance. But what if the band are playing their instruments and singing live along to a backing track, or a sequencer? Is it any more phoney than someone using a keyboard to sound like an orchestra rather than paying live violinists etc?

Its like a sliding scale between at the one end a total live performance and a total mime act at the other extreme where noone is playing just dancing around and pretending, and some of these shows fall somewhere along that scale.

We should bear in mind that some modern music is tied to the technology and can't be reproduced live without turning on a machine and playing along to it (some Rap/Hip Hop/Dance for example). This is nothing new, Hendrix was only possible because technology (the Electric guitar, wah wah pedal, and amplifictaion etc) made it possible for him to do what he did. Nothing wrong with utilising new technology, as long as noone is trying to deceive anyone with a 'fake' live performance IMHO.

[distortedrumble]

......rock music....and no band.....thats like doing a marathon with no legs...it can be done and you get some support from people but you dont win anything. now rap music.....people forget that rap music has its own musicians...their called DJs!!! most of these rappers have bypassed that and i think its ok as long as you have 1-6 other people on stage with mics and towels around their necks saying "uh", "yeah", "you know" and "what". to fill out the performance....for the most part....rappers are boring to look at. they need back up. the one thing i cant stand are the bands that are missing things.....I.E. no bass player or two bass players and no guitars....get that artsy crap off my tv!

[ChristopherM]

I don't mind them "missing" things, as long as they don't have a machine replacing the "missing" things.

I remember just recently watching a band of four guys performing (bass, keyboard, two guitars) with a drum machine. They were playing bluegrass and country. Sadly, the drum machine pretty much ruined it. They really could have pulled it off without the machine.

[glynb]

There's a great local covers band here (three guitars drums traditional line up). The bars are always chock full when they play, sexy friont man attracts the women and if women go then men will follow (young bands take note).

My mate and i went to see them and we were really impressed. Then on one Don Henley cover we noticed that the drummer had donned headphones and there was this keyboard playing in the background and a couple of additional backing voices...we felt like they were cheating. There was really no need to do that, they can all play really well and sing, why add the backing track for that one song.

Needless to say the audience didn't mind at all and I'm sure we were the only ones who noticed what was going on or cared.

[distortedrumble]

well i have to say one of the worst shows but with the greatest idea was at a show i was working as a bouncer for. the guys were doing a video shoot (the club can tape your show) and the band's drummer didnt show up.....however he created the tracks on his Playstation 2. .....the band brought in the PS2 and a small tv. everyone else was live playing......they did their songs and when the video cameras would focus in on different people....it would focus in on the TV screen that had the song drum track playing from the PS2........i think the band sucked with or without a drummer, but that was damn funny.

[jfrog]

how come is it?

If there's only one person with a prerecorded backing band it's always a singer....

You never see a guitarist (or drummer, or bassist) with backing tracks!

[ChristopherM]

Originally posted by jfrog
You never see a guitarist (or drummer, or bassist) with backing tracks!

Apparently, you've never been to Santa Fe or Albuquerque. There are plenty of guitarists and some flutists who play with backing tracks all over the tourist-trap areas of those towns!

[distortedrumble]

losers..........LOL nah we have an indian dude where i live that plays a native american type flute to such noteable favorites like "my heart will go on" ( the theme song to the titanic), and "The Circle of Life" (the Lion King).....now we also have another fun character called Steel Daddy. he plays the steel drums to back up tracks......hes pretty good....If i want some island music from a white guy....hes my pick.

[Sir_Matthew]

It really does have to do with what style of music is being presented. Pink Floyd used backing tracks for ages and no one cared. And technically, a Mellotron was a taped backup, so Zeppelin did it, too.

I've seen it work and I've seen it really suck. It all depends on the style of music and what sort of stage presence the performer has. I used to be more of a hardliner on this kind of stuff, but in 2000 I saw a show by Casey Hess in Dallas doing his Jump Rope Girls material with nothing but him, a guitar, and backing tracks, and it was awesome. But again, it was because he was a great performer.

I think it can be done well, but often it isn't.

[joshw]

Overall, I'd say no way. But then you have bands like The Postal Service who I'd love to see live, but there's just no way for them to do their thing without backing tracks. So Jimmy uses a laptop to do most of the background, while Ben plays guitars and sings. Definitely not ideal, but I think it's more understandable under certain circumstances.

[David Hooper]

Originally Posted by cfw

Hello, my friend and I talked about this recently so I thought I would ask a larger audience this question. If you knew of a rock band that you had heard on a CD, on the internet, etc and you knew ahead of time that their live performance was only the vocalist singing live with the recorded track playing in the background (kind of like a rock Britney Spears but ya know, better), how many of you would pay to see this band live?

Most people wouldn't pay to see this. I've only seen backing tracks go over well for pop music and gospel.

[glimmer_doll]

Bands that play with backing tracks piss me off.

I don't care if the music doesn't sound just like the cd, i want to see an impassioned performance...i want to see you put your fuckin heart into it, and make me beleive that you beleive what your playing/saying.

fuck that little keyboard overdub at the bridge, or vocal harmony, or whatever the fuck it is...just play

look at the system of a down song chop suey. on cd it has all these guitar overdubs, synth strings & piano. They do it live without the keyboard parts, without the multi-layered guitars...and it doesn't matter because it's still a kickass song and they play it with heart...

I call out shame to U2, Linkin Park, Marilyn Manson, Korn, Orgy, Motley Crue, The Who....and all others who spread this infectious disease throughout the spectrum of bands that i would like to see "live"

[Homegrown Vinyl]

I've seen the Pulsars do it, although I saw people in the audience making fun of them. I thought they were great, but to each his own.

In general... it would be better to make a disc of yourself and make it EXACTLY how you want it to sound. Then learn how to play those songs on an acoustic and do it yourself.

If I have my band with me, we play loud, and fast. But if I'm by myself I think it's better to go acoustic.