Waves Native Plugins

[Matt McCubase]

Hey everyone, i am new to the site, and new to home recording. I have some questions requarding my current nome studio setup.

I am using Cubase SX 2.0, i have a ton of plugins. I am using a St Audio C-Port with the DSP24 card in a Athlon 2.2 GHZ xp processor with 512megs of ram. However, it seems as though my mixes all tend to have the same type of basic sound, b/c im really not very good as using some of the more complex plugs. the plugs that i have invested in are as follows:
-Waves Gold Native Bundle
-Antares Autotune
-BBE sonic maximizer
-Amplitube
-the classic series free vst plugins
-Antares VST filter
-The Digital Fishphones free vst plugins

I seem to be able to get some really good sounds with plugs that are easy to use or have a lot of presets included, like amplitube for instance. But with the waves native compressors and PAZ analyzers, and all the crazy stuff that they include with their package, i find it difficult to understand all of what i am doing, i have been to the waves website, and still really dont know what i am doing. Especialliy with things like the compressors.

[Massive Master]

Plugs are great tools, but 90% of "your sound" is coming from the source material. Change that, and you change your sound.

I think you just need to expand your horizons a bit...

John Scrip - www.massivemastering.com

[SPINSTERWUN]

Great statement, MM.

[Matt McCubase]

maybe you could explain a little bit more Mister Mastering. I am intelligent enough to know that changing my source material will change my sound. If you could have a explained a little bit about using the waves plugins to manipulate that sound it would have helped. Thats what i was really looking for.

[fldrummer]

I think MM is trying to say that most of the sound comes from the room, good mics, insturments....themselves. With all of those sounding their best their might not even be a need for some fancy plug-in's.

I think thats what he ment anyway...

Do a search of compressors to learn about em. Don't you have tons of help files that came with it? start>programs>waves>docs.

[Massive Master]

fldrummer is right on track, but it goes even deeper tha that...

I'll give an example - Back in my "rock star" days, we recorded an album using Marshall stacks, with goofy pedalboards with Boss effects, in a small project studio with a 57 through a Ramsa on to 1/2" analog. I and (the other guitarist) Jay engineered for the most part.

It had a certain sound to it.

Around 5 years later, we came across the track tapes and thought it would be fun to record the guitars, bass & vocals again.

At this time, we were signed with a budget, had a Laney amp endorsement, no goofy pedals, guitars that no pro could deny, in a much bigger and more well-equipped studio with Nuemanns lying around.

Anyway, we recorded the tracks over again. After mixing again, we played back both versions. Even with guitar & vocal sounds that were completely different, both versions essentially sounded the same.

It's just the sound it was destined to have. Almost everything in the chain was different - except the talent - and other than certain "qualities" that were different, the essence of the recording did not change.

For the most part, plugins and outboard gear is nothing more than spices. Beef if Beef. It won't taste like chicken no matter what you do with it.

However, if you're just looking for technique, the Waves manual is a good place to start -

John -

[Matt McCubase]

Thanks, but that is what i am trying to tell you i already know. Let me give you my little example just in case you dont believe me.

The very first thing that i ever recorded on was a boss br-8. I spent contless hours on that little thing trying to find good sounds.

Now, much time has passed since i did that first project myself on the br-8, i have gone through all three version of sonar, and have finally gotten a reputable adc dac convertor (presonus firestation, outboard preamps, e-q's, comps, cubase sx-2, waves plugins, autotune etc etc.

I have begun to work on that same original song, and the quality is quite a bit better than the Br-8, but the song itself still sounds essentially the same.

I was merely looking for some suggestions on the waves bundle plugs.
For example, "Yes Mr. McCubase, i have the waves plugs, i really like using "compressor X" for "guitar sound Y" (where X and Y are variables for any type). It really seems to fatten the sound up and make that guitar tone a little more punchy.

The problem here is a that most of the people that post on this site commit what Carkhuff would call a level 2 response. Meaning that the respondant gives the inquierer a superficial answer that doesn't go beyond his/her (the respondant's) own little world.

Read questions thouroughly before you try to give out advice that undermines the intelligence of that particular person to whom you are responding.

This site is not just a sounding board where you can come along and say whatever you want to say in order to put down others and pump up your own intelligence level.

[vestast]

It's really hard for anyone to suggest settings that you should use on a compressor for example, when so much of it could depends on the source.

Waves has lots of presets. Start with one of them then experiment and adjust it till you get something you like...

And I don't think MM was trying to insult your intelligence.. He is one of the most helpfull persons that you'll meet on this board..I think your just not hearing the answers that you want to hear.

[Massive Master]

Definitely not trying to insult anyone's anything.

But, yeah - I never know what kind of compressor/limiter/EQ/chorus/flanger/pee-wee-hermanizer I'm going to put on any track until I hear it - Normally as part of an entire mix.

I think the R-Comp rocks... Especially on the "Opto" setting. But then. I'm a big opto fan...

[teainthesahara]

Originally posted by Matt McCubase

The problem here is a that most of the people that post on this site commit what Carkhuff would call a level 2 response. Meaning that the respondant gives the inquierer a superficial answer that doesn't go beyond his/her (the respondant's) own little world.

Read questions thouroughly before you try to give out advice that undermines the intelligence of that particular person to whom you are responding.

This site is not just a sounding board where you can come along and say whatever you want to say in order to put down others and pump up your own intelligence level.

Wow. That was pretty rude and uncalled for! Do you realize your response back to MM could also easily fit the definition of a "level 2 response"? It's about communication - the way you constructed your first post, it is very easy to get the impression that your recording skills in general are at the novice level. It is very common for folks who have not grasped the basic working knowledge of, say a compressor, to also be somewhere steep along the learning curve of recording in general. Yoru first post is very general, and any proffesional would have commented/questioned about your tracking techniques FIRST to help you solve your problem of 'all my mixes tend to have the same basic sound', as opposed to the plugins. MM's gave you some proffesional advice from that perspective - so dont be insulted

But getting to the question you are actually asking - as 2 people above have said, the WAVES manuals are some of the best written i think. The explain every parameter, step by step, withe examples, and even give litte essays about their use! Your question about opto Vs electro i could just cut and paste out of the manual - it is very well explained. Also try this - play a track through the compressor (any one of them). Select a preset, and you will see the ratio/attack/release variables change. Try and listen for the changes and correlate them to the parameters - make sure the threshold is set so the compressor is working. That should be a good first step i think...

Good luck,
T

[Massive Master]

Geez, I didn't even notice that whole "level 2" part...

But it's true - As much as I or probably anyone here would tell you, every recording is different. Every sound from every guitar or vocalist is going to "ask for" whatever it needs. YOU have to find out what it's asking for, AND, in your opinion, what is best going to deliver that particular need.

I don't mix as much as I used to, but last week for example, I was mixing down a brass ensemble. I couldn't get the (French) horns to sit right - They were always busting out too much. Limiting was out of the question, but they were too quiet to deal with "traditionally."

Out comes the R-Comp. ARC, Opto, Warm, 100, (ARC). The stuff has a crest factor of about 30dB and I was hoping for a bit less than that - I ended up having the threshold at -30 (go figure) and I set the ratio at 1.2:1 - Barely a ratio, but the signal was ALWAYS being compressed. The louder they played, the more reeled-in they got. I mixed that in with the rest of the low brass and presto, it was beautiful.

Now, for another example, that setting surely would have sucked a$$ on the trumpets.

Anyway, if I were you, here's what I'd do...

You're running Cubase SX (A fine choice - I'm a Nuendo 2 person myself. They may as well be the same thing).

Make a track of different instruments - Maybe a minute or two of each. Drums, bass, guitars, vocals, anything. Line it all up on the same track and MUTE IT.

Now, make several copies of that track.

Open one of them up and insert some stuff. Compressors, what have you, and mess with them until you get some cool sounds.

Once you get something interesting, SOLO the original track. When you hit it again, it will mute and go back to the track with the inserts. You can adjust any volume changes and just A/B the tracks so you know what it's doing to what.

Do the same thing with different plugs on other tracks, always leaving the original alone as the "control" copy.

John -

[Altruist]

Read the Waves manuals...They are the best manuals around..They really helped me out...As for what is fun to use. just start experimenting. Thats the fun. You don't like it hit undo and start again. You look like you have enough plugs and such to have some fun..

Geoff

[Scott Signal]

nevermind.

[Kevin Deschwazi]

I wander if he's figured out those waves plugs in the 3 years since he posted?

[cusebassman]

Originally Posted by Kevin DeSchwazi

I wander if he's figured out those waves plugs in the 3 years since he posted?

Probably not. If he was asking a forum what settings to put his compressor / other plugs on to, for example, "Turn guitar sound X that no one here has heard into Joe Perry from Pump recordings sound Y", he was probably missing the entire point of plugin/analog processing anyway

[NashBackslash]

It's fun to see that 3 years ago, Massive is very cool in his posts.