No Midi sound from AP2496

[dmbpettit]

I don't actually have any midi equipment. But I use the piano role to create very basic drum tracks. When I used to use my Audigy 2 Platinum, this method worked fine. But i get no sound when I use my AP2496. I have the midi track output set to the AP MIDI but I get nothing. When I used to use the Audigy I would set the midi out to be the audigy and I would hear it just fine. What is the deal?

[Blue Bear Sound]

The AP2496 doesn't contain any sounds or samples, it's simply an interface for analog/digital/midi I/O........

[dachay2tnr]

Try inserting a DXi such as the Edirol VSC that comes with Sonar and routing the MIDI track to this.

This will replace the synthesizer in the Audigy with a software synthesizer.

[dmbpettit]

so the audigy had a built in synth?

[AlChuck]

Yes.

[guttadaj]

Since this thread looks finished, I hope this isn't considered hijacking it.

I have a question related to this same issue, since I'm thinking about getting an Audiophile 2496 (for better sound quality, better bit depth, and especially lower latency - 20msec is best I can do now - OUCH!). I currently have a Turtle Beach Santa Cruz, which has its own synth, which I actually use a lot. If I were to get the AP2496, could I still use the Santa Cruz for its synth and the AP2496 for everything else, or would that just be asking for headaches? (Plus, it still won't help improve my latency issues when recording MIDI now that I think of it, will it? )

Would anyone be able to recommend a soundcard of similar quality and pricerange as the AP2496 that also has its own MIDI synth?

Thanks!
-Jeff

[AlChuck]

You can do that, but it might end up being more trouble than it's worth. Sometimes it just works, but it seems to me that most people have at least a little trouble getting the cards configured right.

As to your second question, as far as I know, there are no cards similar to the Audiophile that have an on-board synth. Only the consumer level soundcards have synth chips (like your Turtle Beachj, or the Sound Blaster Audigy). The better cards have always concentrated on having good A/D and D/A converters and sometimes MIDI interfaces rather than try to be an all-in-one solution. Now that software synths are commonplace and so good in quality, I doubt that anyone will spend energy any more trying to build hardware synths onto computer soundcards.

[wfaraoni]

I think an audigy can easily beat 20ms for 1/3 the price and its got a built in synth. Lots of folks don't like the audigy here but you can use it along with a 2496 as I once did. I still use the audigy in 1 system along with a roland mmp-2 mic modeler/preamp which does the a/d conversion and I input spdif for everything now.
peace
Bill

[moskus]

Originally posted by dmbpettit
so the audigy had a built in synth?

No, it has a built in sampler...

[guttadaj]

Thanks for the info, guys!

So if you do have one of the higher quality (non consumer level) soundcards with no onboard synth, do you just use DXi synths then for working with MIDI stuff in Sonar? I would think that could be quite a pain, although I guess setting up a template with a DXi already setup would minimize the pain.... (I do have an external synth in my Roland XP-50 keyboard but I'd rather be able to do everything inside the box, at least until things are mostly done.)

Thanks again!
-Jeff

[Blue Bear Sound]

Originally posted by guttadaj
Would anyone be able to recommend a soundcard of similar quality and pricerange as the AP2496 that also has its own MIDI synth?

You can buy quality gear that does one thing very well, or you can buy mediocre gear that does many things, but does them all poorly. Your call........

[AlChuck]

Traditionally, serious recordists would have at least one, and often several, hardware MIDI instruments -- keyboards, sound modules, samplers... and wire their outputs into the mixer along with everything else, and trigger them via the MIDI data recordied in the sequencing app. When the piece was ready to mix, the audio is routed to the stereo master, whether it be DAT or analog tape or a computer.

The softsynths available these days do indeed make it possible to do it all in one box these days, but be aware that the more softsynths you have running simultaneously with the audio/MIDI recording app and plug-in audio effects, the more of a burden you are putting on your computer...

[guttadaj]

I hear ya, Blue Bear. Most of the time it's not so much my call as it is my wallet's. But, yeah, I know - you get what you pay for...

AlChuck - thanks for your response. Very helpful info!
Unfortunately, my monitoring chain pretty much consists of my computer speakers or headphones (I know, I know... bad! Bad! BAD! - monitors next on the list after the soundcard upgrade). Also, my mixer is a tiny little 6 channel jobber that wouldn't really handle the setup you describe. So, I guess I'll go for the AP2496 and just burden my computer with the softsynths, bouncing some to audio if my computer starts to wheeze.

[Jim Y]

guttadaj...
I have a Santa Cruz alongside an AP2496. I'm not aware of this causing any problems. I do not have any of the Santa Cruz audio ports enabled in Sonar, but I do use it's midi synth (also really a sampler as it uses DLS soundfonts) and it's midi i/o from the gameport.
You will never get super-low latency with the Santa Cruz I think because of the DSP hardware in the soundchip it uses. Even with the add-on ASIO driver (asio4all), low-latency is not obtainable.

Keeping a card that can do stuff like EAX audio is handy if you use the same machine for games

"pro" card with a midi synth? Can't think of one. I heard of some Terratec and ST-audio models have a daughterboard (waveblaster) connector for a Yamaha DB50 or 51 XG synth.

[AlChuck]

Just read yesterday that Egosys (Korean soundcard maker, maker of the WAMI rack and other interfaces) has a new model with onboard synth hardware.

[guttadaj]

Thanks for the info, AlChuck. They must have heard my plea. I'll do a little research into that to see if it fits my needs/budget.

Hey, Jim, thanks for explaining your setup... good to hear that the Santa Cruz and AP2496 can live together in perfect harmony... (Anyone else feel compelled to bust out a verse of Ebony & Ivory? ) Since it's very likely that I'm gonna get the AP anyway, I guess I'll just try them together and if there are any problems, I'll yank the Santa Cruz.

So, when you say that you use the Santa Cruz's MIDI synth, do you mean you have things set up so that your MIDI tracks' Outputs are set to the Santa Cruz DLS synth? Is there some trickery or tribal ritual that must be performed to get the Santa Cruz synth's audio output to play through your Audiophile? That's the part that has me baffled. This is starting to sound very promising though...

Thanks a lot!
-Jeff

[AlChuck]

Is there some trickery or tribal ritual that must be performed to get the Santa Cruz synth's audio output to play through your Audiophile? That's the part that has me baffled.

Alas, the only way is to route the output of the Santa Cruz to one or both line inputs on the Audiophile. A better solution (you don't tie up the Audiophile inputs) is to use a mixer to route the outputs of the Audipphile and the Santa Cruz to the monitors.

[Jim Y]

Yeh, I have an external mixer and the Santa Cruz feeds a stereo input as does the Audiophile. The mixer mains feeds my monitors and I record by using my mixers "sub" output feeding the AP analog line inputs.

Santa Cruz DLS synth does indeed show as a midi output in Sonar and works - handy for the metronome.

You can feed the Santa Cruz s/pdif (versa-jack) out to the AP s/pdif in, but like a Soundblaster, the Santa Cruz s/pdif output is locked at 48Khz which means your projects would have to be 48Khz

[guttadaj]

Eeeeesh... Not quite as promising as I thought.

No monitors at the moment, and I don't think my puny Behringer Eurorack 6-channel mixer would even allow for a setup like yours, Jim, although it does sound quite clever!

I can't thank you guys enough - you've helped clear up A LOT of confusion here!!