compressing vocals?

[jthomas]

Anyone - I'm trying to get some effective compress/limit on vocals. I'm using a dbx 166XL and have the compression level set way up (trying 1:infinity even), the peakstop set at zero or lower, and I'm still getting massive spikes on the meters when the singer really hits it. It's not triggering the peakstop. Why isn't the dbx trimming these peaks? I've tried all kinds of threshold settings, etc. Thanx!

[loudnaybor]

If it's not that,how are you routing the signal? Is it all going through the compressor or only part of it ? Like, if you're using your AUX sends, do you have the channel's sends maxed out ?

[jthomas]

Guys, thanks for the replies. Correction: it's a 166A, not 166XL (if it makes a diff). A) it has a bypass button, definitely not in bypass mode. B) entire mic signal is going into compressor. My signal routing on this question is probably strange, I'm running the mic into a board, then board into the compressor, then out from the compressor to tape deck, etc, as an experiment to see what the meters on the tape deck look like (anything particularly wrong with trying that?). Obviously, I can keep the output of the board down and the output gain of the compressor down, but the point is, the mic signal doesn't appear to get clipped on sudden high volumes in the mic. I can trigger the peakstop (at 0db say) by setting the mic input channel gain WAY up, but why? If I set guitar, bass, drums, mic volume all relatively equal but the vocalist really hits it, the meters peg. I ain't gonna lose any sleep over it, it just doesn't LOOK like how a "compressor" should act. Maybe I'm looking for the wrong thing, eh? This is getting way to serious...
thanx.

[crosstudio]

i take the channel direct out into my compressor, and the compressor output into my recorder as a standard way of tracking since i use my vlz pro's mic-pre.

how much gain are you adding at the mic-pre? are you also adding gain at the compressor?

Sean IzReal Wright

[jthomas]

Hey Sean,
Thanks for the reply. The mic-pre gain is not that hot, I keep it just under clip range as usual. I reviewed the manual over the weekend, I just keep the compressor gain up enough to compensate for the db loss of compression. One thing, I think my threshold setting may have been too far up, who knows. Y'know, you set the compression threshold to start compressing whatever signal levels you want. So I set it at like -40db, which should start compressing when a whisper comes in. I tried this, the meters still jump but I'll play around with it. Still learning and trying. I'm not quitting my day job...
jt

[Larry Sheehan]

Sounds to me like your attack may be too slow. The compressor does show gain reduction, right? You can hear gain reduction too, if you're adjusting makeup gain to compensate (which I think you said you were).

Does the 166A have overeasy mode? Auto? Disengage both if they're on.

Try reducing the attack to the absolute minimum and the release to absolute max (It'll sound like crap, but at least you'll know that the compressor is working). Then reduce the release time to about 1/2 scale, and increase the attack.

[jthomas]

Thanks Larry, that makes sense. Yes, 166a has overeasy, not auto. I reviewed the manual (duh) and tried bringing the compression threshold wayyy down, which allowed me to see/hear more of what happens when the compression kicks in, especially with drums. I'll try your suggestion, I'm sure it'll help. By the way, maybe out of the topic but, if you had to record a drumset with just one mic, which one would you use? I read that Page recorded the drums for "When The Levee Breaks" with just one mic for that "huge" sound. I'm curious what mic would work for that. Thanx! jt

[Larry Sheehan]

Interesting question. I've never tried it, but I bet a good boundary mic (ala a modded PZM) mounted to the ceiling around 10 feet out would be worth a shot.

[rj]

I believe you may want to try working on the vocalists technique. You know the routine.
Turn the head on the loud parts. Back off the mic a bit during the peaks.
I have let my (very dynamic) wife watch the VU meters during a practice take so she can see the spikes. After 1 mention of it, she seems to fix the spikes by about 80%!
I am the worst engineer when it comes to spending 5 minutes recording a guitar part, and then 3 days to cut and paste it into time. Garbage in garbage out.
I remember a post here about a year ago where someone spoke of recording a 'professional' singer. Level output the whole way. No need for a compressor. I still use one on vocals, just remember the idea. It may help.

[jthomas]

RJ,
Thanks. That's probably the thing I need to try most. Shows my experience level recording vocalists. I suppose I was dreaming of a compressor that would handle ANY spikes! Dream, dream, dream, dre...

[Iain Duncan]

Actually you can get a compressor that will handle any spikes, but it doesn't sound good that way. If you are using a computer, you can try experimenting with some of the software compressors, and then take what you learn back to the hardware. The reason this helps is that the good software compressors have loads of settings, and you can change the settings very precisely over a humongous range. ( I.E. attack time = 0.0001 etc ) They also have presets, like "classic vocal" that allow you to see what all the settings are for a typical vocal compression etc, and they have a chart of the compression to volume, with a graphical readout of what's going on, and peak holding meters. If you don't have a pro soundcard, you won't want to actually use the software compressor, but I believe them to be an excellent learning tool. Some of them actually have some pretty good documentation too. The best companies, I think, are Waves, DSP-FX, and Sonic Foundry. (Steinberg interfaces piss me off.)

Iain.

[jthomas]

Thanks Iain, gives me ideas. Upgrading my computer gear is the next thing on my list.