Music Video Question

[Sonic Misfit]

I have a friend who put together a video production set-up and hoped to do a lot of commercial work, (car dealers, store, etc.) however, he is not filling up the calendar as quickly as possible. He asked me about doing music videos for bands, he primarily wants to do performance vids rather than theme stuff.

What he is wondering is how to price this service. I told him that bands typically can't pay the rates he would expect from commercial customers. Anyway, I was wondering if anyone has hired a service to do a performance video and how much they paid for this.

Thanks in advance...

[tanlith]

If I were in your buddy's shoes I'd do this:

Find 1 or 2 local bands that are GOOD (And I mean GOOD!)

Do a video for each of them for free... then take said video to your local and regional cable company... they'll get you airtime provided the content isn't offensive.

From there you use those vids to sell to commercial customers... good way to drum up business. A close friend of mine is a photographer and he did pretty much the same thing... now he has his own studio and gets contract work from several major fashion mags...

He started out doing free shoots for local model-wannabes and a couple shoots for some bands ... he made everyone he shot sign a modeling release allowing him to use the photos in both his portfolio and commercially if he chose.

I would imagine your friend is in pretty much the same boat... can't get a customer because he has no existing product to show... can't get product because he has no customer... it's a vicious circle... break it by doing something for nothing... it'll pay off later.

- Tanlith -

[Annapolis]

A good videographer can get around $100/hr depending on the gear and set-up like lights, no lights, HD, BetaSP, DV format and so on. Some production houses charge $1500 just for gear for 1 day. He really needs to check what the production houses are charging and undercut them for lack of experience. He should be able to shoot and edit within 20 hrs. If he has no experience shooting a music video, he should be doing it for free or at least cost of materials, like tape stock, rentals, lunch and mastering cost. If he has a successful track record with bands, he could get upwards to $10,000 or more for a producton. If he is starting out, he might be earning $35 - $50hr with gear. All of these prices are flexable and could change depanding on your marketplace. I don't know your friends skill or your marketplace so I can only give ballpark numbers. Personal, when I work with bands, I cut them a break because I enjoy being around fellow artist.

I agree with tanlith a lot. Barter and get a release.

[pashop]

The problem with music videos is many of the smaller companies sell themselves in the wrong way. Anyone shooting in the video format should sell the product as promotional videos with the emphasis being live performance. The downside of this is anyone with a Mac/PC a firewire card and a DV Camera is in the business in a matter of minutes. The consumer version of FinalCut 4 a five year old can operate so to make good money at this will be tough.
To move into 16mm gets abit easier as you can pick up a used Arriflex on Ebay pretty cheap but then you have to educate yourself on shooting in film and more so lighting for film. Most of the rock video stations will still accept 16mm if its a cool and outside the box creative video. A well scripted 16mm video can be shot for approx $7000.00 keeping in mind the cinematographer also now might be the director and you will have to supply some guys to assist in pulling, setting lights, audio playback etc. Food will probably be pizza and there will probably not be an art department building sets. It called Gorilla filming. I can explain tons more if anyone is interested.
The big problem with music video's is the same problem as recording a CD and that is you are now entering the world market. CMT will not accept anything but 35mm shot video. As far as they are concerned your video must stand up beside a Faith Hill video and if it does not you will not get aired.
I know this is taking the question to another level but its information I though people might be interested in

[Sonic Misfit]

Thanks for the experience info. I will print these out and give them to him. I basically told him a lot of the same thing, but other opinions will help him make a decision. He is talking to some of the clubs in Houston area to see if they would hire him to do some performance and crowd videos. I think he is hoping that they would sell them at the clubs to make some extra $$$.

In that case each band should get a percentage of the sale since it is their performance. Sounds to me like this could get complicated without the proper type of releases. I think he needs to have the documents professionally prepared.

If I hear anything else, I will keep you informed. Talking to the clubs is a different approach.

[ChristopherM]

Bump

[Annapolis]

Pashop, I would be interested in learning more about the music video side of life.

[pashop]

Originally posted by Annapolis
Pashop, I would be interested in learning more about the music video side of life.

Ask and I will tell

[The General]

Pashass

Closing the *** research defamation thread does not exempt you from being the blatant god damned liar all your posts against me and *** clearly document you to be.

To Wit:

Everything was emailed to me from *** haters everywhere.

If you have ANY emails from *** haters - post them! Addresses and all. Then IF THEY EXIST - which they do not - we’ll see if ANY OF THEM ever did business with *** and if so, under what terms and services.

THE FACT IS: YOU’RE A GOD DAMNED LIAR!

Nobody in this or any other Industry is going to search out the likes of you to issue a customer complaint against anybody else, especially ***!

You don’t have any communications - emails or otherwise - from anybody about *** except other damned fools and damned liars spewing your collective stupidities from this BB!

I caught mp3.suckshit’s Jodi Summers in the same damned lie - called her on it just like I’m calling you - AND GOT HER ASS FIRED WHEN SHE COULDN’T DELIVER! I’ll be satisfied just showing you to be the damned liar to everybody else that *** has always known for a fact you are.

Two others I nailed at mp3.crackpot for their damned lies were: Tiffany Barsotti and Rod Underhill. Unfortunately Phil Frazier supported Jodi and got himself nailed when she couldn’t deliver on her damned lies. I caught them in FOUR outrageous damned lies and called them on all FOUR! But the Idiot Element and self-appointed supremacists like you took mp3.sewerpit’s side very time. Ask anyone who was there who is also capable of the TRUTH and they will tell you that I was right each and every time on each and every point!

NOW DELIVER YOU LYING SON OF A BITCH!

TDA

[pashop]

Hey there slime bag
Im not sure if you get it but folk here don't want you and your bullshit around anymore. Go back to being the trailer trash you are no one is buying your crap. Yes I have a bunch of emails many of them yours but I respect the wishes of the group here and will not post.
I was asked to send all the information I had to some guy in LA and he informed me that he will post a link to where all your bullshit can be viewed early next week. From what I see your pretty much screwed bucket head.
This name calling is not what I normally do but what the hell like anyone has any respect for a dirt bag like you.
I will no longer respond to you or any of your gang of brain dead idiots....your not worth my time.

[ChristopherM]

Back to the original subject of this thread...

(still working to keep the forum crap-free!)

[Another PK]

pashop,

Ask and I will tell

Please do and while you're at it, it will be interesting to include your reports of all those cassettes you listened to.

You are a lying son-of-a-bitch!!!!!

Post the emails of those who DID business with ***.

[johneeeveee]

... BOTH sides of this *** thing need to stop. this is a thread on making videos. i have no opinion on *** or the anti-*** crew... but i wish BOTH sides of this could just let it go. it doesn't seem like a conclusion will ever be reached. PLEASE try and find a way to do what you need to do OUTSIDE this BBS... we would all like a place to discuss the industry in a productive way. PLEASE don't respond to this, I IMPLORE YOU, just think about it, and pm me if you must respond... let's stay on the subjects at hand.
peace (please) - jv

[johneeeveee]

Originally posted by pashop
Hey there slime bag
Im not sure if you get it but folk here don't want you and your bullshit around anymore. Go back to being the trailer trash you are no one is buying your crap. Yes I have a bunch of emails many of them yours but I respect the wishes of the group here and will not post.
I was asked to send all the information I had to some guy in LA and he informed me that he will post a link to where all your bullshit can be viewed early next week. From what I see your pretty much screwed bucket head.
This name calling is not what I normally do but what the hell like anyone has any respect for a dirt bag like you.
I will no longer respond to you or any of your gang of brain dead idiots....your not worth my time.

... if you do come up with a link like this, please don't post it here. christopher and others are working really hard to make this site a nice place to hang out. please respect that.
thanks - jv

[Dyson Steel]

Originally posted by johneeeveee
... BOTH sides of this *** thing need to stop. this is a thread on making videos. i have no opinion on *** or the anti-*** crew... but i wish BOTH sides of this could just let it go. it doesn't seem like a conclusion will ever be reached. PLEASE try and find a way to do what you need to do OUTSIDE this BBS... we would all like a place to discuss the industry in a productive way. PLEASE don't respond to this, I IMPLORE YOU, just think about it, and pm me if you must respond... let's stay on the subjects at hand.
peace (please) - jv

I'm with JV & Chris. Hey Chris, the bumping you did the other night may have to be done again. I like to have never got any answers because my post kept moving down but it worked fairly well. Just did not stop it all.

D

[pashop]

Originally posted by johneeeveee
... if you do come up with a link like this, please don't post it here. christopher and others are working really hard to make this site a nice place to hang out. please respect that.
thanks - jv

Hey John I can respect what you guys are doing here and I have stated my position on moving these threads out many times. But be clear of one thing. Im not a kid...if I feel a need to post anything at anytime I will. I really don't need to be told what when and why to post I think I have earned that much. Chris has is own site and in there its his boat and he is the captain.
As far as my " Ask and I will tell" that was directed Annopolis. Since I have been in , directed , produced and edited a few music videos I can pretty much answer most questions in that field. As far as someone posting something to do with *** that has nothing to do with me but they are aware of this site.
Cheers

[ChristopherM]

Hey pashop,
I don't think he meant it so much to "tell you how to post" as just encouragement not to get lured into another fight. That's how I meant it myself, anyway...
Lets not bicker amongst ourselves, OK?
Both of you guys have good stuff to offer.

Cheers,
Christopher

[johneeeveee]

Originally posted by pashop
Hey John I can respect what you guys are doing here and I have stated my position on moving these threads out many times. But be clear of one thing. Im not a kid...if I feel a need to post anything at anytime I will. I really don't need to be told what when and why to post I think I have earned that much. Chris has is own site and in there its his boat and he is the captain.
As far as my " Ask and I will tell" that was directed Annopolis. Since I have been in , directed , produced and edited a few music videos I can pretty much answer most questions in that field. As far as someone posting something to do with *** that has nothing to do with me but they are aware of this site.
Cheers

i respect your position as well, and i understood your post about the music video, and who it was intended for. i think it's great that you can help out with experience in this field. i certainly can't.
i was only politely asking (note the use of "please") that you might not want to post something that would open up a whole new war with ***. i have no opinion on either side, as i have said, and it doesn't concern me. what does concern me is the vibe on this board, and trying to keep things cool. i didn't mean to insult you by telling you what to do... it just seems that there could never be an end to this debate, and it seems to follow you everywhere you go (like this music video thread). it even drove you off this board for a bit, where you and your experience on other things is obviously valuable. this plea is selfish on my part, as i don't do well with conflict, and would probably bail on this board if i didn't see it as a positive thing. that's my own deal, and in the great scheme of things , not that big a deal. i'm sure there are plenty of others on here with different sensibilities, and i just wanted to throw my 2 cents out there for thought. i won't post this sort of thing again, and please excuse my intrusion on this thread. we're cool
thanks- jv

[pashop]

It all good

[johneeeveee]

right on, pashop... things are gettin a bit busy for me right now, but i'll check in down the road and see how y'all are doin.
peace - jv

[pashop]

Part 1
Video tape every performance……..get your friends , your mom your dentist etc to shoot the band at live gigs as much as possible. The great thing about this is two fold. First you get to see yourself perform, you become the audience. and trust me everyone hates seeing themselves on tape as much as hearing there voice on CD.
The key is to find and correct your weak spots. For many bands its lack of eye contact with the audience I have seen videos where 90% of the time every member of the group is looking everywhere but outward into the crowd. Next will be the dead time between songs or the bad tuning segments or guys who just want to bash drums and guitars just because they think its cool before the song begins. The list goes on .
The other great thing is you can take all these videos load them onto a computer and make a great promotional tape of the band using all the good shots . Mac has a simple program and Widows XP also has a quick movie build program available .Keep the parts moving fast max every three seconds either fade or cut to a new segment . Since the material is from possibly ten shows the chance of syncing music will be impossible so use your best recorded song and use that as the soundtrack to your now new promotional video .
Uses:
Entering Contests ( Band Wars)
Mailing to Conferences
Great for Local Promoters of Festivals
Good for on line promotion on your website
Great keepsake for your parents

[zekthedeadcow]

I'm gewtting into video production myself...and hanging around indieclub.com alot...

I was lucky and my college (a community college) is started offering 1 video art course this quarter probably because the area universities are cancelling their video production/film programs

My goal is to do music videos and tour videos for bands and then just go nuts and do local history documentaries, etc.

I did a lot of internet research and found a local sony store to get my hands on nicer DV cameras ...and I chose a panasonic WV-F250 dockable SVHS camcorder off ebay mainly because of bang for buck...and it looks cool...which we all know is more important than actual performance when it comes to working with musicians heh the first time I took it to a show people wern't "nice camera" they were "which news crew are you with?" .... assumption of professionalism is handy ... and really I actually think it puts out a better picture than a VX2000 at 1/6th the cost ... it just has terrible low light performance... so I'm currwently looking for an inexpensive 100w camera light.

To get SVHS on PC I play the tape in a AG-7350 VCR into a 2 way analoge/firewire converter (DAC-100) ...no video capture cards to watch not work

[pashop]

The big thing with video cameras is currently the
http://www.panasonic.com/PBDS/subcat...ag-dvx100.html
which comes with fire wire. The great thing about this is you can shoot film style at 24 fps. I have not yet used the camera but a friend of mine shot a documentary and was fairly impressed. It still does not have the depth and color textures of film but it looks much better than Beta SP / 8mm/ SVHS for shooting music videos.
http://www.panasonic.com/PBDS/subcat...AJ-SDX900.html This guy on the other hand is getting very close. The nice thing about using these kind of cameras instead of film is that you can rewind and shoot again if what you have on you monitor will not suit. First off unless you have video assist on your film camera you don't get to see anything until the product is back from the lab and secondly the cost of film does add up with 1000 feet of 16mm lasting only 11 min.

If your an ebay person you might want to look at DPS Perception capture equipment it will not render transitions in real time but it is solid as a rock and easy to use. Whenever I need to edit I work at this studio that uses DPS Velocity which is amazing and easy to use. Captures at 7 meg a second without breaking a sweat.

Good luck with your new gig.........PS get yourself some tour laminates it will sometimes help get past some wanna be cop security guy