What about...

[darnold]

What about Ribbon mics and Shotgun mics?!

Im talking low budget of course. Studio Projects has made some great Large and Small Diaphragm condensors, but why havnt they gone ahead and done ribbon and shotgun. Im sure the shotgun should be and easier process than the ribbon. Of course the beyer does good for low budget, but there should be a few more options for that type. And shotgun mics? There are some great shotgun mics out there, but they cost thousands of dollars. I wonna get into serious overhead micing for film and dont really wonna fork out $3000 on a shotgun mic that ill only use for that purpose.

Infact now that were on the subject, why havnt there been any budget dynamics out there that match up to mics like the MD421 and 441? Neither of those are very expensive mics of course, but why cant we get some variety.

Danny

[chessrock]

Oktava and Beyer make budget ribbon mics.

I believe Audio Technica make a decent shotgun mic for not much money.

As far as budget dynamics go, uh . . . hmmm . . . let's see, uh I'm trying to think of that one mic by Shure. What do they call it? The 56? No wait a minute, it escapes me. Then there's a few other ones from Beyer in the $200 and under range.

Geez, you want an awful lot, don't ya?

[Richard Monroe]

I actually bought an Oktave ML-52 ribbon mic for $175 new at GC. The price had gotten so low I couldn't help it. Although it is *no* AEA, Royer, RCA, et al., it is a mic with a unique vocal sound that is very usable. Sennheiser and AKG shotguns can be found on ebay if you spook around for a while.-Richie

[chessparov]

The Shure SM56 is an excellent mic-if you can find one. It's the non-reflective version of the Shure 546. Both were designed as "pro" models
of the 545 series.

Steve Tyler's studio vocals are normally done with a SM57 and a Sennheiser shotgun condenser at the same time BTW.

Chris

[darnold]

Its been a while since ive been here

Yah those are definately great budget mics. But i guess the point of what i was wondering, is why there isnt as much demand for these types of mics to be made by companies such as Studio Projects and MXL. It seems there are soooo many options now for really low budget condensers. Why doesnt Studio Projects make "This ribbon mics sounds just like a Royer 121" . No im not saying they will, but why arnt there more products for these types of mics?

Maybe im just not as learned as what is really available with these types of mics. It just seems like its the large diaphragm condensors taking over the world, and few people know now that there is much need for great ribbons and dynamic mics still.

Danny

[chessparov]

You do have some excellent points there Darnold.

I "bugged" Alan Hyatt at PMI to start making ribbons a long time ago. He said they've been very busy with what's already been planned. The more you learn about what any audio manufacturer contends with in terms of bringing new products to market, the more of a hassle you understand the whole process really is. Can take years for (hopefully) positive fruition.

IMHO also making DYNAMIC microphones with the ribbon sound would be a smart route.
Less worries about stretched or broken ribbons,
cheaper to produce (I suppose).

Electro-Voice succeeded with this way back (EV 666), but they seem to never have been that swift in making the public aware of how great some of their stuff was/is.

Chris

[lpdeluxe]

Another issue is that dynamic mics are a lot more sensitive to all the acoustic and electric ills than condensors...it's like designing a great unpowered glider versus designing an airplane where as a last resort you can put a great big honkin' engine in it.

[darnold]

Chris - Good im glad someone else sees what im talking about. I guess i can understand how Studio Projects would have a hard time building these types of microphones when they have contruction on all these other types of microphones which are great.

I really am tired that the best options for recording are all these cheap condensor microphones that relatively all the sound the same. Of course i love them also, but not much for someone to learn how to use versatility to their fullest if it there tools do the same thing.

lpdeluxe - i can see how that would be, but wouldnt it be worth having mics like that around?

Anyway, i might just be rambling now but i did think this subject should be brought up and put a little forward around here.

Danny

[chessrock]

Originally posted by darnold
I really am tired that the best options for recording are all these cheap condensor microphones that relatively all the sound the same.

I'd have to disagree with you on that one. In fact, the cheap condensers are probably some of the worst options out there. For the same amount of money, you can get a much better mic if you go dynamic -- generally speaking. As an example, for $300 you could get an Audio Technica 4040, which is by all means a good mic and an excellent value. Or you could sink the same $300 or so on a Shure SM-7, a Beyer M-88, or maybe even a used Electrovoice RE-20 and have yourself a great mic.

My Electrovoice 666 I picked up for $100 or so used sounds better, sometimes, than my $800 Blue Dragonfly or Audio Technica 4050 -- depending on the application, of course. And the SM-7 hangs with them any day of the week.

[noisedude]

slightly off-topic, but only a bit. does the SM-7 go under any other name? i was wondering because i can't find it on any UK suppliers' website and the only one near it in price is the beta 87A. i don't know anything about that mic so you're gonna laugh at me but i just wondered, y'know, with it being an expensive dynamic and all ..... ?

[noisedude]

ok i'm a moron it's a condenser anyway so instead my question becomes:

where the hell can i find one of these mics in the queen's own land?

even ebay comes up blank unless i buy from abroad.

[Richard Monroe]

Yo Noisedude. The SM-7 has been replaced by SM-7B. The mics are alledged to be either the same mic, or damn close to it. The SM7B has a different armiture, to make it more versatile in terms of how you mount it. It was intended as a radio broadcast mic, but has become a studio standard for a broad array of functions.
It's good on snare, but bigger than you would really like for that application. It is good on cabs, especially clean ones. It is an excellent vocal dynamic, ideal for voiceovers , and either lead or backing vocals. It is as close to an all purpose mic as anything I've ever worked with. Anytime I set up with a cab or drums, it'll probably be there somewhere. Also an excellent stage mic for Sax , brass, woodwinds.-Richie

And no, it's not a condenser.

[chessparov]

Yes the SM7 goes by another name, called the Beyer Soundstar MKII.

Ozraves just scored one for an incredibly good price off e-bay.
$26!!!

And I thought my $60 purchase of one was awesome...
(which it is based on the sound quality)

Will be curious if he thinks it sounds as similar to a SM7 as Harvey
and I think it does. Not as flexible as the SM7 though in terms of on board EQing. A lot cheaper $$ to buy in any case.

Chris

[TexRoadkill]

I've never noticed anyone using a shotgun mic in a studio. They are usually only used for live production, mainly film and video, where they need a tight pattern and have to use the mic a few feet away. In the studio you can put the mic wherever you want so there are probably better ways to spend the money.

I'd love to get an REA ribbon. For only a grand they seem to be the best semi budget ribbon you can get. I'd like to try the Oktavas bet I've never seen a very good review of them.

[arcanemethods]

Darnold, I'd sure appreciate it if you would title a thread like this "What about ribbons and shotguns" rather than "What about...".


Thanks,

Bob

[darnold]

chessrock - thats a good point. Its just funny then why those mics dont get nearly as much hype as the cheap condensors do . Sure you see them every once in a while but not nearly as often. And id definately pick a AT4033 or At4040 over a C1 easily.

Infact, i really need to pick up one of those SM-7s myself. That along with a good ribbon is probably what im really missing in my studio.

TexRoadKill - Yo! Actually i meant the shotgun mic to be more for film work. I started getting into that with my brother in law a few years ago when he was first starting his video company. I was kinda disappointed when the only choice for a small budget shotgun mic was the audio technica. And when i tried it out, i didnt like the sound it gave much, although it was very directional to block out other noise. But it didnt give it the professional punch that my brother in law was getting with his expensive video equipment. At the time i didnt have the funds to buy a $3000 shotgun microphone that i would only use solely for film. I ended up using a C1 instead which was dreadfully heavy and not that great to carry around . Luckily we didnt have extremely loud environments around us so it worked ok and had a good sound. The MXL603 was too noisy and couldnt get a windscreen that blocked the wind out well enough. Anyway, its different now that it is easier for me to afford a shotgun mic for that price, but it was definately frustrating for me at the time.


arcanemethods - ...ok

Danny

[noisedude]

Originally posted by Richard Monroe
And no, it's not a condenser.

Yeah sorry I meant the Beta87A is a condenser. I knew the SM7 wasn't. Still can't find one anywhere!

Chris - thanks for the tip, I can't see any on ebay over here, although I think there's a mark1 going on in the States at the moment!

[chessrock]

Originally posted by darnold
Its just funny then why those mics dont get nearly as much hype as the cheap condensors do.

I attribute it more to consumer ignorance / inexperience than anything. Some people just think it "has to be a condenser" in order to sound good. And they get that idea stuck in their head, so the companies follow suit and give them what they want.

They do that with tubes, too.

[ausrock]

Seeing how the SM7 is so highly regarded and at different times I have seen the Sennie MD-441 refered to in revered tones, can anyone tell me what differences I would expect to encounter or hear between these two mics.

[chessrock]

Are you sure you don't mean the Beyer Soundstar? I heard it's the exact same mic as the SM-7. he he he

Anyway, the differences between the Sennie and the SM7, er, Soundstar . . .

The Sennie has a very tight hypercardiod pattern with great rejection. It also has sort of a condenser-like sound to it; slightly tailored with good high end, etc. Less peaky in the midrange than the SM-7, though not as smooth of a texture to it either.

[ausrock]

Thanks Chess,

From everything I have read and from my own experiences with the MD-441, I thought you would be hard pressed to find a dynamic that was any silkier or smooth sounding.........the SM7 must be some shit.

[chessparov]

I have it on good authority that the SM7 and Soundstar MKII are secretly made by the same
factory in China!

Thanks noise, hope you find some sleeper mics you like too.

My main concern with the 441 is by being a confirmed P-popper. They pop pretty easily on me. Beautiful tone though iMHO.

Chris

[freshmattyp]

Hey Chris - Good to see you back posting here.

I think I'm pretty typical of the people around here. I started off with inexpensive condenser mics, and I've gradually sold off the worst ones, and added some great dyanimcs. I wouldn't trade my SM7 or EV666's for anything. I would have never though to get those until reading about them here. Now if I could just convince the wife that we really need a 441 instead of a new coffeetable...

[noisedude]

Wow, found one specialist TV Studio supplier that carries the newest SM7B, it must be expensive cos the price says 'POA' but their other mic prices are listed up to £400! Sigh. Maybe next year.

[cominginsecond]

In your guys' opinion, will a DMP3 do justice to a SM-7?