Can Fender copyright their body shapes??!!

[Aaron Cheney]

I'm starting to hear quite a buzz among the guitar community about Fender's apparent attmept to copyright the body shape of the stratocaster and telecaster guitars.


Wow.


If they succeed that will have some huge repercussions! Where will that put builders like Melancon, Grosh, Suhr, Anderson, and the million others that are making axes based off the Fender shape?
It also raises a few more questions: how different does a design have to be to be "different"? For example, Fender has never offered a Telecaster w/ tummy and arm cuts. Would their copyright prevent another builder that does from doing so? Also, other strat designs do vary somewhat. For example, in Melancon's strat shape the bass-side "horn" has a slightly different angle to it. It's subtle, but enough for a trained eye to detect and recognize as a Mel.

And furthermore... have you read Fender's official Ebay policy? They expressly forbid anyone from using the term "strat" or "tele" unless you are describing an offical licensed Fender product, and they randomly monitor Ebay and have them remove any item that infringes upon that rule.

Here's my uneducated opinion (i.e. worth nothing): Sometimes a brand name becomes so ubiquitous that it becomes the common word for any such product. Take the words "kleenex" or "band-aid" for example.

The words "strat" and "tele" are such words. WAKE UP FENDER!!!

I also hope that their copyright bid fails. Those shapes are equally as ubiquitous, and have gone unprotected for 50 FRIKKIN' YEARS!! The headstock shapes have long been copyrighted, and this I understand - they are decorative in nature. The body shapes, however, serve a functional purpose.

It will be interesting to see how this all pans out....

A
www.aaroncheney.com

[juststartingout]

Good question Aaron. I actually look at the body just like the headstock. There are various shapes and designs to the body (LP, SG, V, etc.). Some are more comfortable then others, but they are decorative as well.

The strat is the most copied body style that I am aware of. Does Fender have the right to try to copyright there body styles, I would say yes. Should they, I would say no.

Now, a little extra cutaway, or a little shorter or longer body would get the other vendors out of trouble.

[c7sus]

What do you expect from the soul-less assholes that run Fender???

Just look what they did to Leo Fender for Christssakes!

[fenix]

you can use strat-style or tele-style.

[Aaron Cheney]

Speaking of which...

can you imagine if this thing goes through and Fender is able to squelch G&L??

Now that's what I call ironic.


Then imagine Martin copyrighting the dreadnaught.


A
www.aaroncheney.com

[Scottgman]

Originally posted by Aaron Cheney
Sometimes a brand name becomes so ubiquitous that it becomes the common word for any such product. Take the words "kleenex" or "band-aid" for example.

In case you were wondering, there is a word for this phenomenon. It's called a: proprietary eponym.

Xerox is probably the most famous.


Yours truly,

Cliff Claven

[Light]

I seem to recall them trying to do this back in the seventies when all the imported copies started coming in, with no success. I do not think it is an issue right now. I certainly have heard nothing about it, and I almost certainly would, and very quickly. I believe it was ruled a patent issue, and the protection of their patent rights ending twenty years ago.


Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi

[Aaron Cheney]

Hey Light,
I figured you'd weigh in on this sooner or later.

Go here It's a thread on the Melancon forum in which both Gerard and John Suhr participate.

For one person's reaction, go here.


To see Fender's official Ebay policy go here.


A
www.aaroncheney.com

[EddieRay]

A friend of mine who makes electric guitars (Till Guitars) told me he was warned by yet another luthier that the 4/2 arrangement of tuners on a headstock was trademarked by Ernie Ball Music Man. That is, 4 tuners on top, 2 on the bottom cannot be made by anyone other than Ernie Ball.

Can you believe that? Can anyone confirm it?

[guido #2]

Aaron
Fender has issued a tele with the "comfort contour", aka tummy - cut....
My 72 Deluxe has it

[philboyd studge]

It sure got Tokai in deep shit in the early 80's.

As far as strat and tele go, they are registered trademarks just like Coke and Pepsi and the owners can enforce their use any way they please.

Body shapes are different and are often a result of funtionality, it would be hard to make a guitar that does what a strat does and have everything located in the same place and not look like a strat. Still, I think they have a patent for the 'coutour' body, so you probably can't legally make an exact copy. Also tooling and hardware are different. Same for the headstock, which ironically is a rip off from Bigsby.

[guido #2]

Man, in the 70s I had a strat knock-off that i bought from sears.... it was every bit a strat except for the decal. man that was a cool guitar!

[Fusioninspace]

There are diffs between copyrights/Trademarks and patents. But one key point is that the strat and tele have been on the market so long, the protection that those laws would offer would have expired by now.

Plus, if they haven't made a significant effort on their part in the last 50 years to protect those names/designs, it's doubtful a judge would rule on their side. You really have to show due dilegence in trying to protect this sort of intellectual property.

The strat-style, tele-style comment above, would be a very appropriate term to describe those styles of guitars. Even stratocaster-sytle, etc. would be ok.

One watch out from an EBay perspective, is that you might was to have a statement like "Stratocaster is a registered tradmark of Fender" (or whatever is correct) if you make reference to a strat.

If I expect to sell on one strat or strat copy in my life, I don't think I'd even worry about it. But if are routinely dealing with this, then you might want to make sure your not stepping on anyone's lawfully owned trademark.

[Son of Mixerman]

Ibanez got sued for making exact replicas of American products such as the Fender and Gibsons. Even places like Warmoth have to license to sell necks and headstocks that are dimensionally identical to Fender and Gibson. Its funny because of the 70's lawsuit that banned Ibanez from making replicas they have to come up with thier own designs that ironically outsold Fender because they were affordable.
In the early 90's Fender was having some of its Japanese made models... made at the Ibanez factory.

Its a wild world aint it

SoMm

[littlebunny]

Leo Fender started making guitars after examining a guitar made by Merle Travis and Paul Bigsby. Leo Fender used Bigsby's ideas to design his guitars. http://www.nymphusa.com/tele/telemamee.asp

For years Gretsch sued Fender to stop using the "Broadcaster" name for the "Telecaster." Now that Fender owns Gretsch, can the "Tele" finally use the name it originally had?

[philboyd studge]

Originally posted by littlebunny
Leo Fender started making guitars after examining a guitar made by Merle Travis and Paul Bigsby. Leo Fender used Bigsby's ideas to design his guitars. http://www.nymphusa.com/tele/telemamee.asp

For years Gretsch sued Fender to stop using the "Broadcaster" name for the "Telecaster." Now that Fender owns Gretsch, can the "Tele" finally use the name it originally had?

That's pretty close. Leo didn't know crap about guitar other than they could create the sounds he liked to amplify. He was a tool an dye type of inventor, and very good at patents when it came to his strong suit.

After he split with Doc Kauffman and brought out his more efficient variation on the Bigsby solid body, they called it Broadcaster not knowing that Gretsch had a drumset with that name and rather than get sued, they called it Telecaster cause TV was starting to get big. When the strat came out they had their ducks in a row and knew what to do regarding trademarks and patents and such.

"There are diffs between copyrights/Trademarks and patents. But one key point is that the strat and tele have been on the market so long, the protection that those laws would offer would have expired by now.
Plus, if they haven't made a significant effort on their part in the last 50 years to protect those names/designs, it's doubtful a judge would rule on their side. You really have to show due dilegence in trying to protect this sort of intellectual property."

.......Tele, Telecaster and Strat, Stratocaster are active registered trademarks and a judge will rule in Fender's favor every time there is a dispute.

[distortedrumble]

Originally posted by philboyd studge

.......Tele, Telecaster and Strat, Stratocaster are active registered trademarks and a judge will rule in Fender's favor every time there is a dispute.

grab your knock offs while they are still in stock. i wonder if fender wins and the judge rules for companies to stop making them.....will they just sell off what they've made already at lower prices....I have an Epiphone strat-imitation and had a peavey raptor...strat-imitation i have an actual strat now but that doesnt stop me from looking at other imitations