recording with a metronome

[carbonscoring]

my band will be doing a recording in a few months at a very nice studio. In preperation we decided to demo all of the songs that we will be doing at home. The Engineer/Producer suggested that my drummer practice our songs with a metronome, since he records the drummers with metronome and he mentioned that if he was not used to practcing with a metronome that it takes longer.

I guess my questions are, what is a good inexpensive metronome to purchase to have my drummer practice with. And since im not a drummer how do you take in account of timming changes in the middle of a song? Is there any other benifits of using a metronome other than making sure that the drummer stays on top of things.


thanks in advance

[wimat]

I'd look for one with a volume control and a light or some kind of visual that can be followed.

The other advantages are being able to punch in and do overdubs without worrying about the tempo going nuts.

[Massive Master]

As an engineer, I almost always "suggest" a click track - It keeps the feel alive without the "sterile" feel of a drum machine. It makes editing a breeze. If editing is needed at some point (radio edits, verse/chorus replacement) it's nearly imposible without a click track.

As a multi-instrumentalist, when I'm playing drums to a click I need to HEAR it. Lights are great, but most drummers (myself included) have a pretty difficult time trying to keep in play with a flashing light. My eyes have more imprtant things to do. That being said, get or get access to headphones that are superior at isloation. What you DON'T want is your click track bleeding into the overheads.

As far as the click itself is concerned, metronomes, cheapo drum machines, many keyboards even have a click setting.

If your drummer can get into the groove with a click, your project will undoubtedly benefit from it in more ways than one...

John Scrip - www.massivemastering.com

[tjohnston]

I am having click track problems. The verse is 88bpm but the chorus is 92. How do I do that? DO I record chorus and verse on separate tracks to separate click tracks? I’m using adat so exact editing is difficult. I cant program the click track since I’m merely recording a metronome.

[c7sus]

If you have a drum machine you can set the tempo to change from verse to chorus and use the dm as a metronome.

In CW you can set the metronome and put in tempo changes anywhere you want by counting measures. I imagine you should be able to do this with any audio sw. You can use the metronome to trigger GM sounds off any consumer soundcard, push that down a headphone and away you go.

[mrface2112]

i had a REAL hard time learning to play to a click track. now that i have, though, it's really tightened up my sense of time.

the trick for me, though, was getting the click loud enough so that i could hear it, yet not have it bleed through the cans into the mics. go fig.

anyway, don't go into the studio with your drummer never having played with a click--it'll really screw him up. make certain you practice, practice, practice first.


cheers,
wade

[Han]

Wade has a very important point here. Playing to a click is like swimming, if you don't know how, you'll drown within a couple of meters.

The trick here is that you should hear the click and think of it like it's a conductor. Don't try to play exactly on the click, but near it. If you manage to play exactly on top of the click, you'll sound like a drum machine!

Some drummers can do it in half an hour, some will never learn it.

Although it depends on the style of music, it's my strong advice to practice with a click, but not to record with it and if you record with a click, the guitarist, bassplayer and keyboardplayer must have a click as well. So the whole band needs to practice with a clicktrack.

But like Wade says, practicing is most important, it will make you a tight and steady drummer.

Concentrate on groove and feel when you record.

[guitarfreak12]

korg makes an "in the ear" metronome that is about the size of a kidney bean, it works great in my mind. Course I don't know too much

[NYMorningstar]

Originally posted by Han
Don't try to play exactly on the click, but near it. If you manage to play exactly on top of the click, you'll sound like a drum machine!

I don't understand why you wouldn't want to play on the click, that's what it is for. It keeps your timing steady and your playing tight. If you play before the click or after the click it will screw you up and anyone that's playing with that click track. Being ontime does not make you sound sterile or like a drum machine.

Originally posted by Han

Although it depends on the style of music, it's my strong advice to practice with a click, but not to record with it

Why wouldn't you want to record with a click track?

[Robert D]

I wouldn't worry about not playing exactly on the click. The difference between the mechanical sound of a fully quantitized midi track and a tightly played real track is not measured in on the beat or off the beat, it's much more subtle than that . Pushing certain beats is another story, for instance snare hits are often a little ahead as part of the groove, but hi-hats or ride hits usually want to be as tight to the metronome as can be.

RD

[Han]

Originally posted by NYMorningstar
I don't understand why you wouldn't want to play on the click, that's what it is for. It keeps your timing steady and your playing tight. If you play before the click or after the click it will screw you up and anyone that's playing with that click track. Being ontime does not make you sound sterile or like a drum machine.
Why wouldn't you want to record with a click track?

You didn't get the message now did you? I've recorded hundreds of times with a click, because the band insisted to do, but only very few times the music got better.

"Our drummer isn't very tight, can you give him a click?" MORONS!
If the drummer isn't tight let him practice three months two hours a day with a click, but don't come to a studio with that crap, for your music will suck big time and it will bring you nowhere.

Besides that, a groovy song will vary some two or three bpm in the verses/chorus' and maybe even more in the solo part.
You can only manage a sequencer to do that.

A good band doesn't need any click, do you think the Police, Pink Floyd, Beatles, Led Zeppelin, or even Bobby Williams used a click?

BTW, I'm a drummer and I can play exactly on top of a click, even in 4 bar breaks.

[Dyson Steel]

Who says you have to use your drummer for the recording? Not always but a lot of times you won't hear the varying of him/her till its recorded. Then there is the "Its not me. There must be something wrong with the click track" senario.
If you are pushed for a recording of your stuff and want to have CD's for sale at gigs use a studio drummer.
If you pay for the service you don't even have to mention anything about the other drummer. I usually do on the stuff my band does though. Its a curtisouy thing with me.
When I write something and have a studio musician create some part for me I have who ever the musician is sign the copyrights to the sounds, arrangment, scoring, etc. over to me on a "Works for hire" agreement which I have already discussed with the musician before we ever start.
This gets the product ready, so you can promote "Your song(s)" and have "income"!
Now if you are going to push "This is what we sound like", then you better darn well be able to sound like that or you'll lose out real quick. The studio cut also will help make you tighter on the stuff if you play along with it in jam sessions.
If your drummer is insulted and throws a fit and makes threats then I'd have to say look for another drummer.
Guess the questions are:
1. How good do you want to sound?
2. Is this a hobby, passion, or passing thing ?
3. How much time and, or, money are you willing to invest ?
4. Do I , we have a feasible goal and can we get there?

Hope my input helps. I'm not critisizing
Good Luck

[mrface2112]

for me, i was a drummer and wasn't too bad......then i put the drums aside for ~10 years and played guitar pretty much exclusively. just in the last year and a half or so, i've started playing drums again. the chops are still rusty, but i'm fundamentally a LOT more sound than i've ever been.

lemme tell you, learning to play to a click was one of the best things i ever did. i've always had pretty good time to begin with, but MAN did it tighten right up. for me, it wasn't very hard to learn--i just have to hear it. but it really makes a big difference.

and why play to a click? b/c it sets the tempo from the start instead of "getting into the groove" over the first couple measures. and it makes punches a LOT easier. and it makes you a better drummer b/c you keep tighter time.

those three reasons alone are why every drummer should learn to play to a click. you don't need to sound like a metronome when you play, but what crowd can dance to a song with a wandering pulse? what band can lock if they don't know where the downbeat is coming? some things are fundamental if you're a drummer--having good time is one. (and drooling a lot is another )


wade

[geet73]

I will be experiencing my first time recording to a click next Wednesday. Eep.

Also, Dyson, I would take alot of offense to my band asking a studio drummer to record my tracks..

Unless you're talking about a "pop" band.. then it wouldn't make sense as to why you would have a fucking studio drummer. I would quit your band in a second.

[NYMorningstar]

Originally posted by Han

A good band doesn't need any click, do you think the Police, Pink Floyd, Beatles, Led Zeppelin, or even Bobby Williams used a click?

Yes, I believe they used a click track in studio recording sessions. I don't believe there is a saturation point where you get to be sooo good it doesn't make sense to use a click track. A click track benefits the musicians and the engineers in a recording session. It makes good sense to use one even in Abbey Road studios.

[Dyson Steel]

Originally posted by geet73
I will be experiencing my first time recording to a click next Wednesday. Eep.

Also, Dyson, I would take alot of offense to my band asking a studio drummer to record my tracks..

Unless you're talking about a "pop" band.. then it wouldn't make sense as to why you would have a fucking studio drummer. I would quit your band in a second.

I'd like to know how the session comes out.

Sometimes it is more feasible to use a studio drummer. There are a lot of drummers out there. There are a lot of guitar players out there. There are a whole lot of musicians out there. But not all of them are good. But they do get by.


D