Blue Screen Crash - Fatal Exception 0028:D...

[Tripecac]

For the past year, I have been getting occasional crashes when using Sonar 2.2 (from 1 to 5 times a month). I'll be running Sonar and then get a blue screen of death with the following message:

Windows fatal exception OE (or 0E) 0028:D3BDFE93

- The address is always 0028:D....E93 or 0028:D....E8F
- No other programs cause blue-screen crashes, just Sonar.
- I am running 98SE, Sonar 2.2.
- I have reinstalled 98SE and Sonar on a new partition, but still get crashes.
- My PC has a Via chipset (1GHz Athlon Thunderbird); using 4-in-1 drivers.
- I'm using a Delta44 for audio and Frontier WaveCenter PCI card for MIDI.
- Disabling the network connection doesn't help.
- I'm not using any plugin effects or softsynths, just midi and 1 or 2 audio tracks.

This problem started right after 3 things happened at once:

1) I upgraded from Sonar 2.1 to 2.2
2) I installed a Lite-On CDRW burner
3) I installed a Contour Shuttle Pro (v1)

When I reinstalled 98SE, I didn't install Nero (which came with the CDRW) or the Contour Shuttle Pro, so I think I can rule those out (unless the physical presence of the CDRW could be a problem).

Is anyone else having these problems?
Are there any known workarounds?

Thanks a ton!

Travis

[Qwerty]

What driver set are you using? ASIO, WDM or MME?

The "0E" designation means that it was a hardware device and/or driver that has gone splat.

Try grabbing the latest driver versions for everything - sound cards, video cards, motherboard etc. and give it a go.

Failing that - run MSCONFIG have a look at your startup programs and deselect virtually everything, reboot and retest - this will let you know whether something else that is loading is giving you grief.

Also, if you are running UDMA hard drives, makes sure DMA MODE is enabled.

Q.

[Tripecac]

Thanks for your response!

1) I've had blue-screen crashes running ASIO, MME (16 bit), and MME (32 bit). As for WDM, there are no 98SE WDM drivers for my audio card (Delta44); I'd need XP or 2K.

2) I'm running the latest version of all drivers except my MIDI card, but its newest drivers are for WDM, which I am not using. SiSoft Sandra says the only outdated drivers in the PC are the MIDI ones. I could try them anyway, but I'm worried I'll lose MIDI altogether.

3) msconfig -- I've got it as lean as I can make it w/o disabling ZoneAlarm and NAV (at startup). As far as I know, ZoneAlarm and WCTray (for the MIDI card) are the only TSRs.

4) DMA - all drives have DMA enabled.

I never had any blue screen crashes until early last year, when I made those three upgrades (Sonar 2.2, cdrw, shuttle). I used to record long (20+ minute) jams without stopping, but now I can't trust Sonar enough to invest 20 minutes in a jam that might get lost because of a crash.

The most frustrating part is that the crashes are not easily reproducible. I wish there were a way to force a blue-screen crash by loading a certain project or performing a certain set of actions, but there doesn't seem to be any pattern or predictability to the crashes. I will often go days or weeks believing that something I've done has "fixed" the crashes... and then suddenly BAM, another crash.

I've reverted to Sonar 2.1, and am planning on recording (in loop mode) all day today to see if I get a crash. If I do, then I know that the Sonar 2.2 upgrade is (probably) not the problem. If I *don't* get it to crash today, then I'm back where I have been so many times... wanting to believe I "fixed" the problem, but not trusting Sonar enough to record anything more than a couple seconds long.

Travis

[Qwerty]

Your logic seems sound enough -

You know, the best thing you could do is probably step up to Windows XP or at least 2000. Both will do a better job than 98 even with SE.

What sort and how much RAM do you have?

Q.

[Tripecac]

I have 256MB RAM, Samsung I think. Pretty old. I've tried putting more RAM in, but if I fill more than one slot I get memtest errors.

Cakewalk says it'd be "pushing it" to run Sonar and XP with only 256MB RAM (and a 1GHz CPU). They recommend upgrading the mobo, RAM, and OS. That's a lot of $$$, which is why I'm hoping to find a way to prevent the blue screens with my current setup.

Travis

[Tripecac]

All day yesterday and again today, I've left Sonar 2.1 running, constantly recording in a big loop. I'm trying to see if it'll crash.

If I can't get Sonar 2.1 to crash, then that would suggest that either there is a bug in Sonar 2.2 (but would such a bug cause a blue-screen crash?) or that Sonar 2.2 uses different "parts" of my drivers. If I were always using ASIO for Sonar 2.2, this would make sense, since Sonar 2.1 doesn't let me do ASIO, and the ASIO drivers might be faulty. However, Sonar 2.2 has crashed for ASIO, MME-16bit, and MME-32bit.

What else could Sonar 2.2 be doing differently from Sonar 2.1 that would increase the likelihood of a blue-screen crash?

Travis

[dachay2tnr]

FWIW, I am running Sonar 2.2 and WinXp on a 733 MHz machine without any problems (although my latency can be measured using an hourglass ).

I do, however, have 512MB of memory installed. With a 1 Gig machine, you should be able to go higher on memory without any problems. Are you sure it wasn't a problem with mismatched memory modules?

[Tripecac]

The RAM is a mixture of Corsair, Crucial, and something else (no name). I tried all combinations. I never got errors if I only used one stick, and *always* got errors (eventually) if I used two.

I didn't consider that the brands of RAM would be incompatible. Hmmm...

Here's something I didn't consider:

1) buy a single 512MB stick
2) buy two same-brand 256MB sticks

Either of those solutions will be cheaper than getting a mobo, cpu, and new ram!

Wow... Now you've got my hopes up!

Travis

[acidrock]

Another reccomendation is install XP.
Having run both it's like night and day,not to mention the ability to run input monioring and real time DXI playing it's every bit as good as a Sonar upgrade.
XP is to 98se as steak is to hamburger.

[Tripecac]

Hi! I went ahead and ordered 512MB of RAM. If it tests out okay, I *think* I'll be able to run XP.

Does this look tough enough:

- Abit KT7 mobo (Via, unfortunately)
- 1 GHz Athlon
- 512MB RAM (instead of 256 MB)

Or would running XP on that config be like eating steak with a spoon?

Travis

[acidrock]

I had a 933mhz with 512 of ram running XP and Sonar that ran pretty well.If you have two hard drives you should be okay.
Realistically the ram and XP are the only things that are really going to help you short of upgrading your whole computer.You just have to work with what you've got.To keep it in perspective,three years ago,your computer would've been a smokin' rig.While processing power has tripled since then,the quality of music certainly has'nt.

You'll love the XP....but be forewarned,you will probably have to upgrade other apps,such as antivirus,cd burning software,maybe something else.

[Tripecac]

Hey thanks for the quick response, AcidRock!

I am using XP on my work PC already, and definitely prefer it to 98SE. So, I'm not worried about upgrading apps, since I already know what works. Plus, I like to multi-boot, so I won't be completely "killing" 98SE.

My only worry is that I'll get XP, find out that my computer is too clunky, decide to upgrade the hardware (or get a new PC), and then have to deal with transferring the XP activation. I don't know how much of a headache that is, since I haven't had to upgrade any hardware on my work PC (which is running XP) yet.

I agree with you about the quality of music! It's so easy for people w/ minimal ability (and genuine interest) in music creation to churn out mp3s and cds that we end up flooded with "gingerbread tunes".

T

[Tripecac]

I got the new RAM and unfortunately, it had memtest errors.
So I have to return it, and am now back to 256MB and thinking about upgrading the mobo.

Travis

[Toki987]

Tripecac,you have a good excuse to buy. I burned up a processor last week so I had a good excuse to buy. TigerDirect had a great deal on a 2000+ Athlon and a Shuttle 5 slot PCI mb for $110.00 You are forced to buy a 15.00 fan but that is fine, it`s really quiet.

It runs Sonar 2.2 XL great.

[Tripecac]

Toki, thanks!

I've never installed a motherboard before, so I'm a bit stressed about that part. In the past, I've always made the decision to just go ahead and buy a new PC.

How do your prevent yourself from drowning in PCs? I guess you're safe this time, since your old cpu actually died and you needed a replacement, but what about those times when you need to upgrade from something that works to something that works *better*?

Travis

[Toki987]

Originally posted by Tripecac
Toki, thanks!

I've never installed a motherboard before, so I'm a bit stressed about that part. In the past, I've always made the decision to just go ahead and buy a new PC.

How do your prevent yourself from drowning in PCs? I guess you're safe this time, since your old cpu actually died and you needed a replacement, but what about those times when you need to upgrade from something that works to something that works *better*?

Travis

There can be an art to "spilling" something, coffee, soft drink, accidently laughing and spitting water onto the motherboard... if needed for justification.

[Tripecac]

Hi, a tech guy said that when you install a new mobo, you need to reinstall Windows (I think he was talking about XP, don't know if it applies to 98).

I went ahead and calculated the cost of upgrading versus buying a new PC. With shipping and assembly, upgrading is about $500; a new PC (sans monitor) is about $900.

That extra $400 yields the following:

1) an even better DAW -- new power supply, easier access to usb ports, maybe new graphics card, faster CDRW
2) a backup PC -- for storing files, burning cds, testing cds... (which lightens the burden of the new DAW)
3) a backup DAW -- just in case the new one has lengthy down-time
4) piece of mind about not "wasting" a mobo

However, getting a new PC has the following "hidden" costs:

1) gotta maintain it (critical updates, antivirus, etc.)
2) slightly higher power bill
3) slightly warmer room
4) slightly more crowded room

Any other pros and cons?

Travis

[Qwerty]

I vote for a new one.

No good reason, I just like new PC's

Oh yeah - and you would need to do a reinstall of the OS when you install a new mobo - each individual mobo has a unique set of drivers for the PCI bridge, power management etc., which would require a reinstall.

Q.

[Tripecac]

Follow-up:

After a couple months w/ XP, I started getting freezes. They happened about as frequently and unpredictably as the blue-screen crashes in 98SE. Always when using Sonar, never using CoolEdit or other apps.

I decided to go ahead and buy a new PC, this time Intel CPU and mobo, with a hefty psu. Hopefully that'll fix any crashing problems.

So, has anyone else seen this behavior: freezing in XP while using Sonar? Or blue-screens in 98? If so, how did *you* fix your problems?

Trav

[moskus]

Originally Posted by Tripecac

If so, how did *you* fix your problems?

Use only one soundcard. In fact, have only one soundcard installed in the machine.

I had a ton of problems. I removed the crappy SB Audigy, and everything was okay.

To the day I upgraded to 1 gig RAM. I got a new stick of RAM and again everything was okay.

And still is.