Vocal Harshness - How can I avoid this?

[CanopuS]

I've tried posting this over at RO and no one quite knew what the problem was. Some say the mic and my voice aren't friends, some say theres a type of digital distortion. I recorded the clip with a B1 and a VTB-1. I'd like to stress at this point that I like the mic and I do not wish this to become a ground for flaming. Here is the clip:

http://www.digitalsoundplanet.com/Me...05720_proj.mp3

David French over at RO removed just the harsh sound (around 6800Hz), and posted it here:

http://www.bsu.edu/web/dmfrench2/harsh.mp3

I've no idea what is causing this, is it bad vocal technique, bad mic positioning? Thanks for any help

[CMEZ]

I'm not picking up any real digital distortion; I think it's just a de-essing situation. You could use a little.

The guy who dipped the 6800 was essentially performing this function for you.

In that range, sometimes sibiliance gets a little touchy, and you have to locate the freq's and dip 'em out.

Other than that, I don't think it sounds bad.

Chris

[CanopuS]

The biggest problem is that that really dulls the voice. All the "exciting" stuff happens around those frequencies, so it sounds like someones put a sock in my mouth. Thus, I'm looking for a way around it rather than to EQ. Thanks for the suggestion

[Track Rat]

Run the vocal through a de-esser.

[mixmkr]

your first clip sounded really metallic sounding to me and very unatural.
the 2nd clip sounded like the artifacts that meant to be removed..but that was what you were hearing...the artifacts...not the EQ'd file!!

I'll try later, as the previous people apparantly heard them ok.


I think the culprit is the mic though. I've seemed to have heard that sound a lot on cheap mics.

[Hurmph]

ummm, i think there is something wrong with the second clip,

Anyway, Have you tried using more of the toob part of the VTB?

Also where are you postioning the mic? Maybe a different placement might help. But it sounds like you are recording in a room with alot of noise so that might be a problem.

[CanopuS]

Just to clear things up - The first one is meant to sound metallic, because thats what i'm trying to sort out
The second one IS the removed sound, the harsh area, incase anyone could identify itself on its own. Seriously though, the file with the harshness becomes very dull, because it removes all of the vocal harmonics.

[chessrock]

This would be one of those situations where I'd either try de-essing it . . . or I'd try a different mic.

Pretty complex stuff, ya know. That's why I get paid the big bucks.

[CanopuS]

I guess thats why I'm still a rookie

I'll try fooling around with a de-esser. I'm pretty sure that if I had the mic right now I'd get a much better version though

[mixmkr]

Hey!!! I was right on both counts..
metallic and about the 2nd file!!

I'm not going to flame you, or whatever... but it sounds like a cheap microphone. You hear that kind of sound on those "3 for $29" deals on those cheapie vocal mics.

Potentially, you may be also standing near a wall, music stand....something that is bouncing reflections back into the mic on an off axis angle...with a delay...etc.

Try putting the mic out in the middle of a room, if you haven't already and try mic'ing different areas of your head (really!)...like your forehead, etc.

Another tip with some of the less costlier mics is to intentionally sing into it a tad off axis. The freq. response of cheaper mics is usually what separates it from its more costlier counterparts, and the off axis response may actually help solve some of your problems......or make it really bad!

[mixmkr]

ya know... I am also of the opinion, if you are having to de-ess a lot of vocal tracks, something is amuck. Not saying that a de-essor isn't a valuable and very used tool in upper echelon studios, but try and make it sound right without all the extra bells and whistles first... EQ included.

[CanopuS]

You're right, but I don't have any mics with me now at all. I would try retracking it and working on positioning etc. but for now I'm trying to get the best outta what I got (I'm just testing though). Thanks

[CanopuS]

I must really suck at de-essing, I can't get it to work, at all

[chessrock]

What are you using?

[CanopuS]

Cakewalk Pro Audio 9 and the Digitalfishphones de-esser plugins. It's probably a load of ....

[Sonixx]

de-essing isn't going to help here... there's nothing to de-ess... you're wasting your time.

I'm not sure what you're hearing that you want to fix... I've run your clip through a WAVES C4 and the vocal can be smoothed to a large degree. but, this ends up being my preference... which you may or may not like.

why is there so much room being picked up?

consider this.

eliminate the room... do what ever that takes.

do several takes with differening distances from the mic.

now make decisions based on these takes.

i think the mic room combination is not helping

[chessrock]

Yea, I just had a listen to it, and it doesn't sound that bad over here. Nothing to de-ess, so this is where I'd go to plan B and try a different mic.

[malcolm123]

Try tilting the mic with the dia leaning away from you.

Also position the mic like right at eye level with a pop filter.

Something else I do which may be politically incorrect is,, I place my mic up near a wall with a Aurelex Pyramid Foam behind it.

It sort of kills artifacts in the room. well " My " room

It really all depends though. But tilting helped me with 1 of my vocalist. I was shocked with the results. This guy has been killing me for years with his sibs


Malcolm

[Sonixx]

CanopuS, are you interested in hearing your clip smoothed... I'll post it, just let me know

[CanopuS]

Thanks for all the advice people. Sonixx, it would be great to hear it, especially if you could tell me how you did it. Is it possible to post? Thanks

[Sonixx]

Originally posted by CanopuS
Thanks for all the advice people. Sonixx, it would be great to hear it, especially if you could tell me how you did it. Is it possible to post? Thanks

I've posted three clips:

Your Original

Airy

Smooth

The Airy and Smooth are similar but the Airy has a touch more high end

There's no EQ used, only a WAVES C4 Mulitband compressor followed by RCOMP.

Here's the settings:

Smooth
C4
Band 1
Threshold: -36.8
Gain: 3
Range: -13.5
Attk: 4
Rel: 40.27

Band 2
Threshold: -27.9
Gain: 3
Range: -13.5
Attk: 43.35
Rel: 333.4

Band 3
Threshold: -40
Gain: 6.6
Range: -14.1
Attk: 44.26
Rel: 315.48

Band 4
Threshold: -45.3
Gain: 9
Range: -15
Attk: .5
Rel: 5

Airy
C4
Band 1
Threshold: -36.8
Gain: 3
Range: -13.5
Attk: 4
Rel: 40.27

Band 2
Threshold: -27.9
Gain: 3
Range: -13.5
Attk: 43.35
Rel: 333.4

Band 3
Threshold: -40
Gain: 6.6
Range: -14.1
Attk: 44.26
Rel: 315.48

Band 4
Threshold: -45.3
Gain: 9.5
Range: -8.8
Attk: .5
Rel: 5

Crossovers:
Low: 103
Mid: 1139
Hi: 9722
Q: .75

RCOMP
Threash: -32.9
Ratio: 1.08
Attk: 5
Release: 300
Gain: 2

RCOMP is common to both Airy and Smooth

Keep in mind this is tinkering... just moving the C4 Crossovers a tad makes a big difference and so does changing the C4 Threshold

The differences between Smooth and Airy are fairly suttle.

[Richard Monroe]

All this tech-talk is giving me a headache! Part of the problem is perception here, I think. That midrange boost (hype) that you call "harshness" is beloved by some people, who think that it is "clarity", and you can get that effect even from some rather expensive mics, including Neumann U87ai and B.L.U.E. Kiwi. Oddly enough, the 2 mics I own that never seem to do that are Oktava MK319 and Oktava ML-52. It has been suggested that the room is a factor, and I tend to agree with that.-Richie