LiveSynth Pro - no sound on Channel 10??

[guttadaj]

I'm trying to use LiveSynth Pro to send my MIDI drums to a Blue Jay Drums soundfont. Initially, my MIDI drum track was set to Channel 10 while I was creating/editing it, since I was just playing it through my soundcard's synth.
Then, when I went to send it to the soundfont, I switched the Output to the LiveSynth Pro and... nothing.

So I sat there puzzled for a while, double-checking things, and then just for the hell of it, I tried switching the channel from "10: LiveSynth Pro" to "1: LiveSynth Pro". And then there were drums... and it was good! But it didn't make any sense. In fact, I switched the channel to all other channels except 10 and heard drums, but no dice when it's on channel 10. Doesn't that seem backwards? Is there something funky going on here?

Gratuitous add-on questions:
Is there a way to change the output, channel, etc. of multiple tracks at once, or do I have to go through all my MIDI tracks (1 per note after CAL script now) and switch them individually...?
Also, anyone know an easy way to rename my tracks from "Split Note A3" to the drummap's note name?

Sorry so many questions! So much confusion though!

Thanks!
-Jeff

[moskus]

Originally posted by guttadaj
So I sat there puzzled for a while, double-checking things, and then just for the hell of it, I tried switching the channel from "10: LiveSynth Pro" to "1: LiveSynth Pro". And then there were drums... and it was good! But it didn't make any sense. In fact, I switched the channel to all other channels except 10 and heard drums, but no dice when it's on channel 10. Doesn't that seem backwards? Is there something funky going on here?

You'll hear the drums on Ch 1 because that's where you loaded the soundfont into LiveSynth Pro. If you load another soundfont, that will be playable of Ch 2 and so on...

In other words, some soundfonts (as Blue Jay) isn't fixed to Ch 10, but is played in the channel they're loaded into (in the sampler, in this case Live Synth Pro).






And as far as I know, there's no quick way to change output-settings for more than one track at a time. Maybe there is something I don't know about, though...

[James Argo]

Well, it's a bit confusing indeed I try to exlain in "not so technical" explanation here. Many people tend to use "channel 10" for drums MIDI track. What they usualy forget is this rules only applied for standard GM. By using Blue Jay Drums (or many other stand alone drums soundfonts), then you're not using Standard GM anymore. Therefore, you don't have to attach it on channel 10 to make drum sound In our case here, standard GM soundfonts store drums sound somewhere which can only be triggered from channel 10. Lets say this is a "hidden place" where synth engine will look for when you select channel 10. Unfortunatelly, Blue Jay drums doesn't store anything in "this place", that's why no sound will be produced. Instead, Blue Jay drums (or any regular drums soundfonts I ever recall) use "regular" place to store it's sound which can be triggered using channel other than 10. You get it, eh ?

Is there a way to change the output, channel, etc. of multiple tracks at once, or do I have to go through all my MIDI tracks (1 per note after CAL script now) and switch them individually...?
Also, anyone know an easy way to rename my tracks from "Split Note A3" to the drummap's note name?

Sorry, but the answer is no for both questions... You must do the routine for each tracks...


Jaymz

[James Argo]

Originally posted by moskus
You'll hear the drums on Ch 1 because that's where you loaded the soundfont into LiveSynth Pro. If you load another soundfont, that will be playable of Ch 2 and so on...

In other words, some soundfonts (as Blue Jay) isn't fixed to Ch 10, but is played in the channel they're loaded into (in the sampler, in this case Live Synth Pro).

Umh, soundfonts loaded into banks, moskus... not channel... If you load another soundfont, that will be available on bank 2 (or where you load it)... You can load as many banks as your system can handle, but one inserted Livesynth pro DXi can only handle 16 channel multi timbral. Several channel on same DXi can access one bank at once (except channel 10 on GM standard). But one channel can only acces one bank at once...


Jaymz

[guttadaj]

Thanks, guys, for the replies!

James - I think your "not so technical" explanation did the trick. Just what I needed.

One more funky thing I'm seeing though, and I'm wondering if this is how it's supposed to work. In addition to what you said about "one channel can only access one bank at once", it also seems as though one channel can only access one patch at once. What I'm seeing is:
. . . if I have a track set to Ch 1 and Patch A
. . . and then I change a different track to Ch 1 also but it has Patch B,
. . . then the first track seems to switch to use Patch B too (although it still says Patch A).
It seems as though the Channel will use the last Patch that's been assigned on it.

Does this sound right? If it is, I just wish that all the tracks on that Channel would get updated with the right Patch. It's tough not knowing whether or not I can believe what the Patch setting says for my tracks.

Thanks!
-Jeff

[guttadaj]

Yuck... Just noticed also that there can only be 1 Pan setting for the whole Channel. So when I go to spread out the kit, the whole Channel just uses the last Pan setting I've modified.

Am I doing something wrong or is this how the Channel is supposed to behave? So now I'm gonna need to assign different channels for all differently panned drums too!
Sheesh...

[moskus]

Originally posted by James Argo
Umh, soundfonts loaded into banks, moskus... not channel...

Pffft! Now you're beeing too technical...

[moskus]

Originally posted by guttadaj
Am I doing something wrong or is this how the Channel is supposed to behave? So now I'm gonna need to assign different channels for all differently panned drums too!
Sheesh...

That's correct. That's just how it works, because many "hits" are bundled togheter as one "instrument" and volume and pan is set for the whole "instrument" (track, channel, whatever). If you desperatly need to pan every drum (other ways than the drums in the soundfont is panned) you can either change the soundfont itself, or check out the lovely DR-008 (free if you had Sonar 2 XL).

[James Argo]

Glad to see you get it Now, to clear things up, lets see this analogy. I hope it's neither too technical. You'll get the idea...

Track: The place where you interact within sequencer to control synth/sampler/DXi/soundfonts/MIDI devices. You insert command here to control them, either initialy, or somewhere on the middle of the song.

Channel: The "highway" which connects track to particular part of the synth, etc... It's being "media" which delivers MIDI data you write on the track to particular part of the synth. It works like "digital cable".

Part: Independent "instrument" which is controlled by one channel. So, GM standard 16 channel multitimbral can have 16 independent part withing one synth. You can assign one bank and one patch on one part independent to another part.

Bank: Storage of patch. Usualy has 128 slot to store patches devided by number. (Some particular synth has banks which can store less or more number of patches. Standard is 128). One MIDI device can have many banks.

Patch: Usualy reffers to the sound/program. On GM standard, patch 1 is Grand piano, 49 is Marcato, etc...

Now, we can have same understanding on the terms here. Lets see this...

Track --> Channel --> Part

Say you have 5 tracks which assigned to one channel. No matter in which track you put any MIDI command (Bank changes, patch changes, pan, vol, etc...), if it reffers to same channel, the command will be delivered to the same part. So, the part will respond. However, in almost every case, the "part" will not *tell* back to the tracks that it has recieved command sent by other tracks. Therefore, the bank and patch name (and also pan, vol, etc) shown on the track will not change. But the sound is changed...

Bad English of mine............, but you get it, eh?

So now I'm gonna need to assign different channels for all differently panned drums too!

Happy click click click...


Jaymz

[James Argo]

Originally posted by moskus
That's correct. That's just how it works, because many "hits" are bundled togheter as one "instrument" and volume and pan is set for the whole "instrument" (track, channel, whatever).

...assigned to one part (that means controlled by one channel). If you assign same bank and patch into another part (which means controlled by other channel), then the you can control them separately. If you do this...

Track 1 -->Channel 1-->Part 1 (bank 0, patch 1)

Track 2 -->Channel 2-->Part 2 (bank 0, patch 1)

Then you can control both part independently. Although they assigned to same bank and patch. Pan on track 1 won't affect track 2...


Jaymz

[guttadaj]

Thank you guys for your help!

Things are much clearer now. I think I'm going to wait on the panning until after I convert the MIDI stuff to audio tracks so I don't have to use tons of channels (and possibly more instances of the LiveSynthPro if it would go over 16... actually over 15 since Channel 10 is unusable ). Now I'll just use the different channels when I want to use different patches, which shouldn't be too many. I'm finding that I usually shop for a good bass drum and snare drum which are usually in different patches and maybe some up-pitched cymbals in another patch, so maybe 3 different patches/channels is all I need. That's manageable...

While I wish things were a little easier (don't we all? ) with maybe less of a mouse-workout, at least know I understand how it all works and why. That helps immensely!

Thanks again!
-Jeff