record what track first - bounce preference

[andyhix]

Hi. I'm working on a Tascam 424. With the understanding that nobody likes to bounce stuff, what is the recommended instruments to keep isolated on their own track.

Say I'm gonna put a standard rock song together - drums (machine), bass, el. guitar, ac. guitar, vocals, bac. vocals, and maybe piano. [In reality, I won't have all that at the same time...just for discussion sake] For mixdown purposes, what insturments are easiest/best to bounce together, and what should really be left to have its own track?

[regebro]

Well, you HAVE to do the drums frst, or nobody can keep the beat. And in my experience, if you mixed drums and bass together and that sounded good, their individual levels would work fine in the final mix too.

The lead vocals definitely need their own channel.

As goes for the rest: YMMV.

[The Ghost of FM]

Back when I used to have and record on a TASCAM 244 Portastudio, I used to record drums, bass and rhythm guitar on their own tracks then do a careful bounce to track 4 of those three instruments and then have three tracks Left over for a lead guitar, main vocal and a backing vocal, depending on the composition of the track. This would leave me with a 6 part song that had only one bounce to it.

This method can be extended too if your songs require more parts where you, while the tape tracks are being bounced, add a live part too, to the bounce process but, this method requires more mix and performance skills to pull off successfully.

Taking it to the extreme using the above example, you should be able to assemble a 10 part song where there is no more then one bounce to any of the first nine parts and the last track being a first generation quality track.

Realistically, if you don't want to risk playing live, an additional part during a bounce, you can still assemble a 7 part song by following the first method to it's maximum conclusion.

Of coarse, you might want to consider getting an 8 track recorder too, if you have a lot of parts to your songs and don't want to be committed to bounce mixes.

Cheers!

[BillyFurnett]

Another (non bounce sort of) approach would be using a sequencer and keyboard to build your piano, drums and bass line
ensemble, then sacrafice one track to the sync tone.
(If you have two extra or a stereo input for the keyboard that is)

You might be able to do a bit of bouncing on the three open tracks without affecting the sync tone...I never tried it.

Or go crazy and get a sequencer a keyboard and an 8 track!!
(Giving you 7 tracks and your keyboard generated ensemble)

[DigitalSmigital]

The only thing I can add here is about the stereo field and eq. The drums and bass can be on one track and be put in the "center". (and without a bounce if you have a drum machine) You must plan the stereo positioning before you start the song, so you know what can be sharing a track.

But you lose ability to eq a single instrument after a bounce. EQ the track all day 'til it's perfect before the bounce. Try to get back-up vocals on a single track, especially if you are the only singer.

Lead instruments and vocals can go on a single track, especially if they don't overlap. Mixdown will be trickier.

I bounce externally, to a second four track to save a generation, but you can go to a 2 track machine with all four tracks in a stereo mix, then back to your 424 on two chanels. They say it's better to have an 8 track, but for demo purposes, I think it's ok.

[jake-owa]

Originally posted by DigitalSmigital
I bounce externally, to a second four track to save a generation,....

Sorry, I'm confused here. Any bounce is a generation of loss.

[reel buzzer]

I think he meant bounce to another four track machine as opposed to bouncing to a stereo then back to the four track. That would be one generation loss instead of two.

[Beck]

Here's a nice little reference form the Netherlands:

http://www.phys.tue.nl/people/etimme.../bouncing.html

In addition to bouncing, some creative punch-in will expand your capability. When I was using a 4-track Tascam 246 I would often punch in the lead guitar on the vocal tracks. I usually doubled the lead vocal and lead guitar. I sang it and played it twice -- nice thick sound.

I've used track 4 as a sync track for drum machine since about 1985 and later a sequencer. It made things a little cramped for bouncing, but I gained an 8-track sequencer and drum machine with separate outs (Roland TR-707) in the trade. The only things that ever went to the Portastudio were vocals, guitar and acoustic piano. Everything else went directly to the master tape. Of course everyone asked, "How the hell do get that big sound with a 4-track cassette?" Now you know.

These days I would probably bounce externally to beta Hi-Fi or reel-to-reel, depending on the material, but I didn't have that stuff then. A good cassette deck like the Tascam 122, 112 or 102 with Dolby C and HX Pro would be a step up sonically from the 424, so are likely candidates for external bouncing as well.