New guitar amp suggestions

[KingNothing]

I have a dilema, a paradox of such.

I think i gotta buy a new gintar amp cause the one im usein now sucks. Fender Princeton 112 Plus. 65 watts, but its not loud at all...it also sounds like ass, both clean and distorted, although the distorted is not that bad. And the input jack is real mess so if you step on your guitar cable and pull it towards the ground your ears will be bleeding from the feedback....so what should I get???

Possilble options:
Marshall JCM800 head used - But then i would have to buy a cab, and that would cost me muchos doe. Probably not the best option.

Marshall DSL401 - 40 watt tube combo. How loud is this thing gonna be? And will it sound ok?

??? - Other suggestions.

I am mainly using to just record and jam with my buddies. I want somethin that can sound real heavy and have a nice clean sound. Probably wanna spend about $500 or so.

[DALtune]

You couldget a LINE 6 Spider series 210 combo for $499. It's only 50w but is stereo and the circuts of the POD (which gets rave reviews). There is also a 112 50w.

I've never heard them, but LINE 6 has pretty good stuff.

Plus I just happened to be looking through Musician's Friend. Again.

[Emeric]

Hey King..

I was gonna suggest the Trace Elliot line of amps, but in Canadian $, it's a bit above what you were planning. The Trace Elliot Velocette is one wicked amp, it's switchable between 15 and 6W setting (it's very loud, loud enough to gig easy)... And man it rocks. It's a great amp. Unfortunately, Gibson has taken over that line, so the price went from $800 to $2000 for the exact same product. Sad eh?


Like you were thinking:

In the $500 range, I'd look for a used Marshall head, and save up for a decent cabinet.

Best of luck.



[This message has been edited by Emeric (edited 05-27-2000).]

[Emeric]

For some reason I thought you were from Vancouver, BC.. I should learn how to read one of these days.

[ametth]

king, maybe you should save some more money to buy a good amp. you say you want a good clean and distortion channel...I would not go with marshall if thats the case, IMO, their clean channel is unacceptable. If you could save up more, I would suggest looking into a VHT, Soldano, Trace Elliot or Mesa Boogie. Good Luck

ametth

[KingNothing]

Oh dude. I want a VHT bad, but thats too spendy. Or Soldano man, but im never gonna have enough cash.

The reason im hesitant to get the Marshall head is just cause I dont wanna spring for a cab later. Id rather just get the combo. What do you think of those?

Thanks for all the other suggestions tho guys. Ill seriously look into all of em before I make a final decision.

[KingNothing]

Another thing -

I keep hearing people say that Marshall watts are louder than normal watts? Is there any truth to this? Im wondering this cause of the 40 watts on the Marshall DSL 401, is this gonna be louder than my 65 watt Fender piecer?

I guess I could live with only marginal clean tone. I dont use it very often anyways, but it definately has be able to be brutally heavy

Emeric - Thats is pretty messed about the Trace Elliot line. Same product only like 225% increase in price.

Hehe...and yes, reading is an important skill...

[This message has been edited by KingNothing (edited 05-27-2000).]

[Emeric]

yes the watts thing is always messed up.


The TE amp i was mentioning... switchable between 6W and 15W. A guy I know puts it on 6W cause it's to loud... this is Live..

Watts are always misrepresented.

[Emeric]

And... TE products blow away any Marshall in that price range.. and way above. No, I don't work for them.

[KingNothing]

I'll definately look into Trace Elliot then.

The newest possiblility is the Marshall JCM 900 4101 100W 1 12" Combo. If I can find one. I dont know if Marshall is makin em right now...

[James HE]

Look for a used Mesa! I've owned three Mesa's- they were all incredible! My new 35 watt DC3 is plenty loud!

-jhe

[ametth]

king, I would definitely get a combo amp. Lugging around a head and cab sucks. But dude, yuo should really save all you can and get a really good amp. The amp I have now cost me an arm and a leg, but it makes a huge difference. It's only a 30 watt amp, but it'll blow doors off of ANY 100 watt amp...so I think watts are misleading when looking for an amp. You should look for a used marshall (if you can stand their clean sound), trace or mesa.


ametth

p.s. oh yeah, if you decide to buy a marshall amp, you can always get a clean channel mod, so it'll sound like a regular clean channel.

[This message has been edited by ametth (edited 05-27-2000).]

[KingNothing]

Hey ammeth, thanks for tha suggestons. Youre definately right, luggin around a 50lb head and a 75 lb cab is not very fresh.

Couple of questions - What amp are u usin now that is so much louder at 30 watts than many 100 watt amps? This is what i need, i need somethin hella loud and heavy soundin.

Also, by clean mod, what exactly do u mean? Something like the pod that has different clean tone emulations?

And would you go tube or solid state in Marshalls? Are tubes generally louder than solid state?

[Cooperman]

I gotta disagree here. If you're after "brutally heavy" then you gotta get a cab... you're just not gonna get enough balls from a combo. HOWEVER, if you don't have the money for a head and a cab, and you don't wanna save up for one, then buy a combo that can drive a quad then you got no problems. You can use the combo by itself when you are just jamming in your bedroom or whatever, and then when you've saved up some more money you can buy a cab. You can then hook up the cab when you wanna play loud or record or whatever.

Two of my favourite heads both come in a combo format. Peavey 5150 and Crate Blue Voodoo - check these out if you can.

My advice is to just decide how much you wanna spend and go around to every music store in your area and play everything within that that price range and decide for yourself what you like the best.

[ametth]

King, I have a matchless dc-30.

And I must disagree with cooperman, you dont need a cab to be britally heavy, you just need a good amp. I can get downright brutal with my amp. Plus when you play live, usually everything is miced and you dont really need alot of stage volume to get really loud, the pa will take care of that.

What I mean by clean channel mod, is, you can take the amp to a technician and he/she can modify the clean channel to sound alot better.

On a last note, I would stay away from solid state amps, IMNTBHO, I think they suck ass, and I can always pick them out in recordings.


ametth

[RussP]

King;

Listen to your ears! Most of your sound comes
right out of your hands. Try everything and
don't look past the Fender Hot Rod Deluxe,
Or Deville. I've been down the same road,first a 112 Deluxe, then a Mesa DC2 with a Marshall 100W super lead in between. I finally setteled on a Hot Rod Deluxe. This
amp sounds great with my Strats and the Les Paul.
Close your eyes & open your ears.

Russp

[DropD]

Even miced, a combo won't sound the same as a 4X12, it's a question of the frequency response of the cab, open back vs close back etc. Unless the Combo has 4 12" speakers in them and is the same size as a full size cab., it won't sound the same.

[foo]

Way back when, a Canadian company called Traynor made GREAT amps which were basically Fender replicas. You can probably find a used one fairly easily.

If you can find a 'Twin' (2x12")it will be MUCHO LOUD, and very clean. As it is tube, it will have a very sparkly tone. Don't get caught up in the 30-watts, 60-watts, 100-watts, my amp is bigger than yours thing (see 'Spinal Tap' "this amp goes to eleven")

With the right distortion pedal, you can probably get yourself a very respectable rig for $500 bucks or so. Try to find one that has a 12AX7 tube as it's core.
One of the problems you will have is that the sound will have too much distortion when you go from a (relatively) low volume practise session to the full stage sound. Turn down the amount of distortion/overdrive on the pedal and let the amp's natural compression do it's stuff.
Sometime down the road you can add a 2x12 (or a 4x12) cabinet for more coverage, but most of that is cosmetic. Many of the stage set-ups you see with multiple Marshall cabs actually consists of empty cabinets, with a (for example)Blackface Fender Deluxe miced up behind them.

I own a Boogie, and can recommend them highly - plus Matchless make great sounding amps (basically a Vox AC 30 that is road-ready and reliable).

I have never been satisfied with Marshalls. They do sound great with everything on 10 and a Les Paul (or pretty much any good guitar), but they're not flexible enough for my needs.
Get tubes - they just sound better.

One thing to be aware of, too, is one of my favorite pieces of advise that I was given - 'If you buy the best, you are never disappointed'
You think your amp sucks now - live with it and save up until you can afford the used Boogie head and 4x12 cab. You'll never have to buy another amp. Buy the seperate head and cabinet now, 'cos when you get old and your back is shot to hell from lifting 4x12 cabs loaded with EV's, you'll appreciate the fact that you can get a 2x12 cab with Celestions in it. Trust me! (c:]
Good luck,

foo

[This message has been edited by foo (edited 06-04-2000).]

[robnoxious]

Its not Marshall watts that are louder its tube amps in general that are louder watt for watt. Im using a Boogie Rectoverb for band practice and gigging now. Its 50 watts and is louder than my old solid state set up pushin 170watts. For your budget I would try a Line 6 Spider. I was messin around at the guitar store the other day and tried one. I thought it sounded very good for a solid state amp though I didnt push it very hard. If you decide to save up for a tube head I would recommend that you keep it at or below 50watts because they tend to generate good tone at a more usable volume than the higher watt tube amps. As for cabs I run one 2x12 for band practice and two 2x12's live. For home practice I use a little Peavy Rage 158 because it tends to not disturb the neighbors and has a headphone jack for when I wake up in the middle of the night and have to work something out.:-)
Good luck
Rob

[KingNothing]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by foo:
One of the problems you will have is that the sound will have too much distortion when you go from a (relatively) low volume practise session to the full stage sound.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You can never have enough distortion.

Thank you both for you input. I really do want to look into Mesa more, but I just cant see myself buying one of those, it's almost overkill. I think you are right about keepin a tube amp under 50 watts for my purposes, I had kind of determined that to be the way to go also.

[timtraynor]

Alright Foo! Traynor Amps are great. My great
uncle Pete made some durable nice clean sounding
amps in the 60's and 70's. Yorkville has recently reissued a tube twin. You can get them used real cheap but they are hard to get to distort. You would need to use a pedal but the clean sound kills any Fender Twin and they usually come with Tremolo and a good reverb.
Torres or others also make a mod that will give you a Marshall overdrive sound. The two
twelve is 200 real watts! Rock On!

[KingNothing]

What about Hughes and Kettner, their Tube Series? Anyone have any experience with these?

[PILSMAN]

I have a Peavey Classic 50/410 that backs up a Tube Screamer and a Big Muff. I like the sound more than a lot of the higher-end amps that I've played. This amp can get deafeningly loud. Just a suggestion.

[foo]

You have to take any guy seriously who lives in a place called kaiserslaughter!

Sorry King but you can have too much distortion (IMHO) You get to the point where you can't differentiate between the notes, and then what's the point - you may as well be a keyboard player (Jeez, just kidding you keyboard guys!)

Of course, if the plan is to sound like Slipknot or Pantera then I guess you're right and you can't have too much.

foo