preamp/compressor combo questions...

[kranky]

Hello, I am looking at getting a new preamp and compressor around the $300 range. The only pre's I have now are my Mackie VLZ pros. What I need to know also is if 300 dollars will get me a better preamp than my VLS's. If not, I'll save more and ask later!
Thanks!

[Massive Master]

It's all about flavor... Try some of the ART units, the RNP... Rane makes a preamp ("A" preamp - Just one) that's barely short of amazing for around $150.

John Scrip - www.massivemastering.com

[calidus]

M-audio DMP3 is a very nice unit, for 300$ you can almost get two so you have 4 clean channels. In my opinion it would represent an improvement, however there are different opinion on how much of an improvement on the mackies preamps you get a with a 100-300 bucks unit.

Since you have ok preamps, I wouldn't go cheaper than 300$, if you can squeeze some extra $ then I'd definitely suggest the RNP. OR....if one channel at the time is enough, AND you like the idea behind one channel strips, then get the Tampa, seen as low as 350$, that was my route....

[kranky]

Wow, I've been doing a little research on the M-Audio Tampa. It's seems to be a good unit for the buck. Well, chances are that I will be able to squeeze a couple hundred extra into my Preamp cause. Now that I'm armed with $500, are there any other/better suggestions for my pre purchase?
Thanks!

[ozraves]

Here's the best around $500 or so preamp/compressor unit I've used... www.mojopie.com/p1.html It's got a limiter and expander as well that are very nice.

The only thing else I'd recommend that is cheaper would be to get an M-Audio DMP3 for $149 from www.digitalproaudio.com and pair it with an FMR RNC which goes for as low as $105 on eBay but usually more like $150 used. The compressor in the RNC is good in super nice mode but it sort of pales when compared to the compressor/limiter/expander in the P1.

[chessrock]

Originally posted by ozraves
Here's the best around $500 or so preamp/compressor unit I've used... www.mojopie.com/p1.html It's got a limiter and expander as well that are very nice.

I have a feeling those are going to be in a lot of studios over the next year or two.

Originally posted by ozraves
The only thing else I'd recommend that is cheaper would be to get an M-Audio DMP3 for $149 from www.digitalproaudio.com and pair it with an FMR RNC

Yea, but you still don't get the limiter. For that, you'd have to spend yet another $600 or so for an Aphex dominator if you want something analog that's transparent. The Safe Sound is a great deal when you think about it.

[kranky]

The Safe Sound unit is also looking promising. Most of what I do requires more of an upfront, crisp vocal sound. My thing is, with the budget I have, will I be able to notice an audible difference between the suggested units vs my VLZ Pro's?
Thanks!

[ozraves]

Kranky, I thought the mic pre to be sort of up front and crisp.

The P1's limiter is very transparent as Chessrock points out.

[Bobalou]

whats the headroom like on that P-1 and how well would it work on snare drum (i usually dont compress my snare on the way in) but how would that limiter/expander work? ...I hate a squashed sounding snare!

[chessrock]

I've heard it's pretty tough to make someting sound overcompressed. Also that it's just pretty tough to make something sound bad in general.

[johneeeveee]

... i was just thinking about this sort of thing the other day, and wondering why there aren't more products like this, WITH a headphone amp for direct monitoring? seems like a one- track- at-a- time- to- a- soundcard kinda guy's dream come true. do headphone amps add potential noise or something, or are there other reasons there aren't more of these things around (at least right now... new trend, maybe?)
peace - jv

[johneeeveee]

... and no wall wart!... i think i want one
thanks for the link - jv

[ozraves]

Originally posted by johneeeveee
... i was just thinking about this sort of thing the other day, and wondering why there aren't more products like this, WITH a headphone amp for direct monitoring? seems like a one- track- at-a- time- to- a- soundcard kinda guy's dream come true. do headphone amps add potential noise or something, or are there other reasons there aren't more of these things around (at least right now... new trend, maybe?)
peace - jv

The headphone amp does not affect the sonics of the mic pre or the compressor/expander/limiter at all. I monitored through my usual system and the P1's monitoring system.

Why aren't there more things like this around? I think sometimes thing are so obvious that they get overlooked. Someone has to be first.

What makes this a soundcard guy's dream is the limiter. If you adjust it correctly (and it's easy to get it right as it's not fickle at all), then you won't need to worry about clipping.

[ozraves]

Originally posted by Bobalou
whats the headroom like on that P-1 and how well would it work on snare drum (i usually dont compress my snare on the way in) but how would that limiter/expander work? ...I hate a squashed sounding snare!

If set up right, then it'd work well. I'd suggest leaving the expander off on the snare and just running the pre and the limiter. The limiter is always on. You can switch off/on the expander and compressor. If you are a little artsy, then you can work with the mic pre gain to push the limiter a bit. There is a nice musicality there in that limiter in a certain zone.

[Middleman]

The Focusrite VoiceMaster Pro has the headphone mix feature. These innovations are coming mainly out of Europe it seems.

Gotta agree this looks like a winner. Would like to hear that preamp amp though. If it is on par with the RNP then I am sold. Heck if its on par with the DMP3 I would be happy.

I would also like to hear a shootout with the RNC and the compressor in this thing.

[ozraves]

Middleman--

If you'll give me some suggested scenarios, then I'll do an A/B for you between the RNP/RNC and the P1.

[Warhead]

Howdy everyone. I am Warren with www.frontendaudio.com and we're the distributor of the Safe Sound Audio P1. I have posted here before.

The P1 is the reason me and my partner Shane started Front End Audio, so yes I feel it's a strong unit. Steve has one in for review right now, and if he's got clips that's great. I have clips if anyone is interested but again I'm the distributor and don't want anyone thinking I'm like super-pimp.

You are welcome to post any questions here and I'll answer 'em. You can also contact Safe Sound directly through their website if you wish, Robert Campbell is a great guy and very helpful.

Thanks.

War

[Middleman]

Originally posted by ozraves
Middleman--

If you'll give me some suggested scenarios, then I'll do an A/B for you between the RNP/RNC and the P1.

Oz, your my hero

1. RNP vs P1 no compression or limiting - straight preamp. With and without a tube mic (if possible) on male vocal. Then the same test with appropriate mic/s on acoustic guitar.

2. Put the RNC on the RNP. T=-4, R=1:4, Att=2, Rel =.5, G=2. Set the P1 compressor to the same settings. Repeat voice and guitar

3. Bass DI A/B with same compression setting as above.

I don't need a limiter test, I believe already.

Hey, you asked. Whatever you have time for would be appreciated. Thanks.

MM

[ozraves]

Warhead--

Post up your drum overhead clips. I think those are pretty revealing.

[chessrock]

Originally posted by Middleman
1. RNP vs P1 no compression or limiting - straight preamp. With and without a tube mic (if possible) on male vocal. Then the same test with appropriate mic/s on acoustic guitar.

2. Put the RNC on the RNP. T=-4, R=1:4, Att=2, Rel =.5, G=2. Set the P1 compressor to the same settings. Repeat voice and guitar

3. Bass DI A/B with same compression setting as above.

Jeezus. Why don't you just tell him to give you some fries and a complimentary BJ while you're at it, Middle.

Middleman: "Uh yes, fries, lightly-salted. Half cooked in Vegetable oil at 400 degrees fehrenheight, and the other half at 350 using only hydrogenated oil of some variation. And I like my BJ's on the sloppy side. Not too much teeth, but just a touch on the tip of wee-wee."

[Middleman]

What the hell, I was raised in a big family. If there's food on the table, grab it quick.

Oz, do what you can, anything is appreciated. Actually overheads would tell about half the story. Something on the low end would be nice.

Chess, that was funny.

[Warhead]

OK, what I've got are my old 4 preamp comparisons. We played this game over at www.studioforums.com a while back before I became a dealer for Safe Sound Audio.

I'm going to go ahead and give you the answers though:

#1 Behringer
#2 Speck 5.0
#3 Safe Sound Audio P1
#4 TFPro P2

The MP3 clips are as follows:

1) Washburn Taurus Bass ($400 bass, stock cheap pickups) DI in

2) Palmer (?) crappy acoustic guitar finger strummed with a CAD M179 mic (not ideal but it reveals some things)

3) Me talking / singing (haha sorry) into an AT3035 mic

4) Kick drum N/D868 mic

5) Snare (Arbiter maple 14x5.5") SM57 top head

6) Overhead drums using one CAD M179 in cardioid

You can tell differences in the preamps for sure. I need to scrounge up my compression clips but it's late out here. Soon I'll put my hands on them. Again, these are MP3...not ideal for sparkling detail etc.

Link: http://www.nowhereradio.com/artists/...d=2079&alid=-1

I also think that each of these preamps has its own purpose in life, I'm not here saying that the P1 is the be all end all of preamps. Different flavors.

Hope this helps someone. I know it's tough making decisions to buy stuff you can't touch, that's why we have a return policy though.

Warren Dent
www.frontendaudio.com
warren@frontendaudio.com

[NathanEldred]

Originally posted by kranky
Hello, I am looking at getting a new preamp and compressor around the $300 range. The only pre's I have now are my Mackie VLZ pros. What I need to know also is if 300 dollars will get me a better preamp than my VLS's. If not, I'll save more and ask later!
Thanks!

There isn't anything that's going to top a Mackie made in the last couple of years for the price. Save up and buy an RNP/RNC combo, it's the best "channel strip" for (more than) the money by far. ART, Presonus, etc....stay with your Mackie.

-----------------------
Nathan Eldred
atlasproaudio.com

[Warhead]

Not long ago you suggested that a low cost RME preamp would blow away a Mackie VLZ Pro, so I guess I wouldn't completely agree with your statement that nothing will beat it unless it's FMR. Nathan, have you heard the P1? It's a good preamp, but a great compressor limiter.

http://homerecording.com/bbs/showthr...586#post934586

Do you sell RME and FMR? I know it's easier to comment on what you have experienced and used yourself. I've dabbled with an RNP and yes, it's pretty nice but it wasn't real exciting so my buddy sent it back. I did like it as a bass DI. I cannot comment on RME since I have not used.

Lots of choices out there for the original poster.

Take care

Warren

[Teacher]

Originally posted by NathanEldred
There isn't anything that's going to top a Mackie made in the last couple of years for the price. Save up and buy an RNP/RNC combo, it's the best "channel strip" for (more than) the money by far. ART, Presonus, etc....stay with your Mackie.

-----------------------
Nathan Eldred
atlasproaudio.com

have you tried the safesound stuff that these guys are talkin about? definitly looks interesting as a single channel solution, Mr. Mcquillen might get a run for his money with this suff