Control Room

[ascox]

Hey guys,
My studio is basically a large carpeted garage filled with furniture and musical instruments. The problem is I need an area to mix down. My future plan is to divide the room in half, then split that half making one side a control room. However at the time my funds won't cut it. I thought about portable walls or baffles of some kind. Any suggestions?

[knightfly]

actually, the only reason that makes any sense to have a separate control room is sound isolation, so you can hear what an instrument is going to sound like through your system instead of directly - that way, you make better choices as to things like reverb, EQ, mic position, etc - without soundproofing between the two rooms, you're probably better off with just one big room, both from a logistics point of view and from acoustics (bigger rooms sound better almost always) -

Cheapest thing you could do might be to just roll the carpet back out of the way on the side you want to use for a studio (not so dead), and buy a decent set of closed ear headphones to use for auditioning mics, etc - then mix on speakers and save for building materials.

It's just too expensive to sound proof a room well enough to make it worthwhile (it HAS to be hermetically sealed to work), and half-ass is usually worse than no ass at all... Steve

[RICK FITZPATRICK]

half-ass is usually worse than no ass at all.

No wonder I sit lopsided.

[casenpoint]

In my studio I have swinging baffles. Fill them with foam or insulation and then cover them with fabric.

They work great!

They're attached to the wall securely of course.

[knightfly]

"They work great!" -

For what?

[casenpoint]

Suppose you're recording two different instruments in the same room a duet lets say. But, you want too have some isolation.

This would also be good to hear yourself play without the other musician overpowering your own ear drums and that of your members!

Having two different sides would also accomadate like u didn't already know this "wall treatment".

In the closed position it will fit snuggly against the wall.

[knightfly]

Yeah, just flickin' ya a little - sure, gobo's will help isolate instruments from each other somewhat, but they're no substitute for hermetic sealed double leaf walls if you need full isolation... Steve

[gvarko]

Obviously Knightfly has an unlimited budget and no concern for offering a do-able solution. All of your posts knock people for making simple suggestions. Not everyone has the money nor the expertise to create the studio of their dreams so how about offering some budget minded advise?? As an obvious expert you should be able to offer up more than sarcasm.

[Blue Bear Sound]

Originally posted by gvarko
Obviously Knightfly has an unlimited budget and no concern for offering a do-able solution. All of your posts knock people for making simple suggestions. Not everyone has the money nor the expertise to create the studio of their dreams so how about offering some budget minded advise?? As an obvious expert you should be able to offer up more than sarcasm.

WTF are you talking about???? Knightfly gave perfectly good answers....

You obviously have trouble reading -- his first answer gave the original poster concrete info and also a budget-oriented solution.

[RICK FITZPATRICK]

Hey gvarko, since your such a smart and enlightened budget minded builder, what would you offer as advice. As a newbie, you haven't got a fucking clue how much Knightfly has helped people with budget solutions. In fact, this gentleman bends over backwards to share 30 years of insight into construction, acoustics, electrical, electronic, recording technigue, and many other usefull solutions and information. Since you are new here, I suggest you sit back and take it in for a while. That is unless you want to become the resident expert and share all your economical expertise with this bbs. Otherwise, don't come in here knocking the people who truly know what the fuck they are talking about. But I suggest you better have a reserve of scientific and educated background to back it up or you may get eaten alive.

fitZ

[gvarko]

Originally posted by knightfly
"They work great!" -

For what?

You are all so tense.. I was merely refering to one sarcastic remark, not downplaying the man's expertise. Just because I am a newbie doesn't mean I haven't read many posts where Knightfly was more than helpfull. Sorry if that came across wrong, I will reattach my head now that it has been handed to me...

[Track Rat]

gvarko, if you'd like to attempt tp extracate your foot from your mouth, lets hear your approach. I'm waiting.

[gvarko]

I though I just did that...

[laptoppop]

I agree about keeping it one space. Take the money you'd spend on making it into two and make that one space sound as good as possible.

My studio is one space -- there are definite positives and negatives to that --
Positive: great intimacy with the artists
Positive: right there - wearing headpones (sennheiser hd280 pro is my choice) to adjust the mics
Negative: Must be perfectly quiet during takes

The bottom line is that you want the best possible sound -- and one larger room is cheaper/easier to make sound better than two smaller rooms.

-lee-

[knightfly]

Guys, let's all just step back and start over - first, that WAS a smart-ass comment, and it WAS intentional - When I read a comment that says "works great", it tells me SQUAT. So my comment "for what", was a smart-ass way of saying, "finish presenting your point - your statement is misleading, for one thing..."

By that, I mean that yes, gobo's work great (for SOME isolation between instruments, NOT for sound proofing one area from another)

Please keep in mind that we have ALL levels of expertise/knowledge coming here, some to help, some to learn, most for BOTH. Incomplete thoughts can (and DO) confuse or corrupt the knowledge being sought, and can lead to a person with $50 to spend, flushing that money down the toilet based on false or incomplete information.

My main reason for the (partially) smart-ass comment was to get Casenpoint to FINISH his statement so no one was confused by (apparently) conflicting statements.

Now that THAT is (hopefully) cleared up, here's what I intended to say (thought I DID say it, guess not) -

If you're on a tight budget, (and I'm talking having to choose between having enough undershorts and saving for a guitar cable) then it's NOT practical to think about a separate control room, tracking room, iso booths, machine room, etc - leave those til you cash in that winning Powerball ticket, or at least have enough income so you can cover your ass AND make cool sounds... Under those conditions, I would recommend recording with the idea that these songs will be "scratch pads" - in other words, save the ideas on whatever media you have, until you can get them recorded in better acoustic space (even if it's a friend's barn, out in the country, whatever) - one way of doing this is as much "direct" recording as possible, ie: no microphones, therefore no acoustic problems (but also no acoustic "sweetness") - Anyway, this post would get even more ridiculously long if I were to go into all that's involved there, check the Newbies area and all the other gear forums for that type of info.

If you're just a little better off than the "no shorts" guy, a good set of closed-ear, non-hyped headphones in a single, (not "chopped up" ) room is a decent work-around - it's kind of a PITA to have to check drum mics, etc, with headphones on in order to keep from hearing too much of the direct sound, but the ALTERNATIVE is pretty expensive.

Gobo's will NOT get you there for full isolation. Moving blankets, drapes, egg cartons, foam, mattresses, piles of dried dog shit, NOTHING will give you near complete isolation between two areas other than properly designed walls. This isn't me being an "elitist", it's just physics. Therefore, to GET this needed isolation you either pay $50 to $100 for a decent set of closed ear headphones, or you spend the time, money, effort, etc, to build (or have built) proper sound proof walls.

The only OTHER way I know of to get that good isolation is if you can transmit your sound a long enough distance without loss so that you can use that friend's barn for a tracking room (hoping the neighbors don't have a retarded dog that barks just to hear his head rattle) and use your apartment 6 miles away for a control room. This is actually becoming more feasible with digital technology, but it's not as cheap as a good set of headphones yet...

One reason FEW of my posts are short is that it isn't possible to ACCURATELY convey anything other than a yes or no with few words. "works great" means anything (or nothing) you want it to mean. "yup" means "I agree with what you said" -

So, when I say something like, " for what?" - It means, "wake up - you didn't explain yourself well enough to avoid confusion" -

Hopefully this will clear up my intent, which is to (mostly) minimise confusion... Steve

[gvarko]

That was excellent advise, gave me some new insight as well.
I have re-attached my head and removed the foot from my mouth now and will appologize to you personally. I was having a bad morning and should have thought it through more carefully, your advise is extremely valuable. Thanks

[knightfly]

No prob, you should see the results of some of MY "bad days" - on second thought, only if you have a strong stomach... :=)

BTW, a lot of what may come off as "unlimited budget" advice comes from just the opposite - I've already TRIED several of the ideas I "put down" - they flat do NOT do the job people hope/assume they will, so I try to discourage people withOUT unlimited budgets from even wasting their time/money on them.

In spite of the frustration of "not doing anything", there really ARE times when that is the best move. By that, I don't actually mean not doing ANYTHING, just not doing something that will have very little (if any) positive effect, and only take money that could be saved til there is enough to do something that will actually WORK.

Glad you liked at least PART of my suggestions...:=) Steve