My Tape is slowing down..

[ahmedgarcia]

Hello all, my name is ahmed. I have a TEAC 80-8. I was dumping some sound into my MX when the tape speed slowed down and then came back to speed. This happended to every song through out the tape.

The nearest TASCAM maintence dude is in San Antonio, which is about an hour and half away. Any idea what might cause this so that I can tell them at the repair shop what to look at.

Thanks in advance.

[Han]

Are you sure the tape isn't sticky? This happens with older tapes (Ampex 456). If so, the tape must be baked. Are the heads clean?

If the tapes are good and the heads are clean and don't get dirty after a couple of minutes, it must be the machine.

If memory serves me well, the pinch roller is moved against the capstan by a solenoid (kind of an electro magnet thing) and it's adjustable, plus it needs some lubricant.

Is the pinch roller in good order?

[Beck]

I agree with Han about the sticky tape shed. It's the first thing I would check. If you have Ampex tape made before 1995 it is prone to break down. All Ampex/Quantegy after 1995 is ok. Scotch/3M and AGFA made through the '80s had the same problem.

http://www.tangible-technology.com/tape/baking1.html

Even if you are now using newer tape, if older tape was used in the recent past it should have a good cleaning.

Every part of the tape path must be cleaned once the defective tape has been run through the machine.

I've seen this a lot -- it acts like a mechanical problem, but it's the tape.

If it's not the tape it could be a slipping capstan drive belt.

Let us know how it turns out.

[ahmedgarcia]

It is a recording of my band from like 1991 or 92. I think it is a Quantegy 456. Bake!!! Damnit, I was hopeing I did not have to bake it. I just read in AudioMedia this same answer, "sticky tape"!!!

Ok I will work on this and give you guys a follow-up. Any one here in Austin that can give me a hand?

Thanks
ahmed

[Han]

Oh great! Have you visited Eddie Ciletti's website, the one mentioned by Beck?

I have baked many tapes and they run like new.
Don't play sticky tapes, for you can ruin them.

[Beck]

Ahmed,

I bought the Nesco FD60 food dehydrator at Wal-Mart for $39.96. You can't beat the price and it works like a charm.

I put the tape one shelf up from the bottom and run it for 5 hours at 130 degrees (1/2' tape).

Everyone says there are no magnetic fields to worry about, but I keep the tape away from the fan motor at the top just to be safe.

I never imagined I would be counting a food dehydrator among my studio equipment.

http://www.walmart.com/catalog/produ...3A90546%3A4813

[ahmedgarcia]

for all of your advise

[BillyFurnett]

Hey Beck (Guys),

I'm thinking of picking up one of those FD60's, because I have like 9 or 10 reels of 456 that if I can use, will really make the $45 oven a money saving investment, but I'm wondering about a few things:

Are some tapes simply too far gone to be brought back to life?

Will baking restore tapes to a point that I can use them to tape over? (I mean I'd be baking in hopes of having tapes to use, not just to mix down.)

Should I bulk erase them before, at all or after baking?



Thanks

[acorec]

Originally posted by BillyFurnett
Hey Beck (Guys),

I'm thinking of picking up one of those FD60's, because I have like 9 or 10 reels of 456 that if I can use, will really make the $45 oven a money saving investment, but I'm wondering about a few things:

Are some tapes simply too far gone to be brought back to life?

Will baking restore tapes to a point that I can use them to tape over? (I mean I'd be baking in hopes of having tapes to use, not just to mix down.)

Should I bulk erase them before, at all or after baking?



Thanks

Baking the tape is a temparary solution. It is intended to allow you to get the tracks off the tape and back them up. The tape will revert back to the "sticky" problem. The tape is bad and should not be re-used for recording unless you want to lap your heads anytime soon. The "sticky" tape sheds oxide fast and really gums up the heads. I had this happen twice with a 80-8. They had to re-lap the heads both times. Bake, backup and chuck the tape in the trash.

[Han]

Now that is really heavy talk adorec.

The sticky tape problem is caused by poor storage, to much humidity and after fears of sucking H2O, the binder which holds the oxide gets sticky.

If you put a 2" reel in the oven and open it after some 10 minutes, you will see big drops of water upon the tape.

It's a physics phenomenon, not chemical, which means it's reversable.

If you have a really bad tape, bake it for 20 hours or longer. Is it still a little sticky? Back in the oven.

You can bake tapes more than once, actually you can bake them many times, so you don't need to trash them.

I have recorded with tapes that were baked and had no problem at all. A baked tape will run like new.

But you'll have to store them in an airtight bag together with a sachet of silica gel. If you do that your tape will last forever.

Baked tapes don't wear your head more than other unbaked tapes IMHO.

I will not hesitate to put an Elvis or Beatles tape in the oven.
I have baked MRL tapes as well.

Don't bake too hot!

[Beck]

I've not heard of a tape being too far gone for baking, but I suppose that's possible if it's been used a lot in its sticky state or been otherwise mishandled. Degauss the tape after baking.

I've kept all my old tapes after baking them. However, acorec makes a good point and you should be very cautious with old tapes because they will eventually revert back to the sticky state... well, maybe.

Unfortunately, it's not really predictable to any certainty how long a baked tape will maintain its integrity. It depends on the tape and environmental factors, which will vary from brand-to-brand, tape-to-tape, and place-to-place.

For example if you're in Louisiana where you can cut the air with a knife in the Summer time your chances of keeping a baked tape usable for long is pretty bleak. On the other hand, if you're in Arizona you may not have to bake the tape again.

If kept in an airtight plastic bag (use large zip-lock bags) in a climate-controlled environment some tapes may never need baking again, but your mileage may vary.

That being said, as for having blank tape on hand it's really not worth the hassle and the risk to your equipment. I strongly recommend buying newer Ampex/Quantegy tape (made in 1994 or later).

Secondly, I wish everyone would stop buying ancient used tape of questionable quality on eBay and such for this reason -- we only have one maker of open reel tape left on earth, Quantegy (ok there's Zonal in the UK), so we better let them know there is a demand for new tape or we may lose them as well.

If you do buy Ampex tape on eBay, ask the seller what the date code is on the label. If he won't or can't tell you then don't buy it. If it is older than 1994 you should pass and keep looking. All tape marked Quantegy is ok.

The bottom line is that sticky tape shed sucks and it will take more than a routine cleaning of your machine if it has a run-in with it.

[regebro]

Originally posted by Beck
Degauss the tape after baking.

Whoah! You just said that after baking the tape should be erased. I don't think that's what you ment to say...

[Beck]

Originally posted by regebro
Whoah! You just said that after baking the tape should be erased. I don't think that's what you ment to say...

Yes, that's right. It was in response to a specific question about whether a tape, which one wants to erase or degauss, should be erased before or after baking. Ok, I guess if someone wasn't following the thread they might think you should degauss every tape you bake even if you want to keep what's on it.

However, if there are those out there that don't know enough not to degauss a tape with material on it they want to save.... eh hem, nothing I say or don't say is really going to make a difference, is it?

To clarify though (ok, my better angels win) -- DEGAUSSING TAPE IS NOT A STEP IN THE BAKING PROCESS! But if you're goal is to save old tape to be used as blank then degauss (erase) after baking when the tape is in it's restored condition.

Thanks though regebro for pointing that out. I forget sometimes just how much people don't know.

[acorec]

“Regardless of what format is used, the following are the most common tape problems:

Sticky residue or powder on tape, which makes it difficult to play the tape.


Binder degradation (oxide flaking off the basefilm).


Physical damage due to poor tape recorder maintenance.
The sticky-tape / -powder problem can be temporarily relieved by baking the tape for at least eight hours at 55°C (130°F), and an extreme case may require 18 to 24 hours. A convection oven is recommended for this procedure. This heating process makes the tape usable for a few weeks and can be repeated many times. I recommend copying any tapes that develop this problem because their long-term durability is questionable.

The second problem, binder degradation, can sometimes be reversed by storing the tapes in a cold and dry environment for a couple of weeks. The third problem of tape damage is usually caused by one edge of the tape being curled and is the result of an improperly aligned tape transport. A severe case of edge damage, pleating, or creasing is usually difficult to play, but I have developed a method of correcting the problem so that the tape is at least playable...”


The "baking" of tape is only really appropriate for quick transfer of the contents to NEW tape. The old tape is still bad. The baking only helps to get a playable tape for transfer. Use th old tape at your peril. It is NOT worth the price of lapping the heads. Use new tape, your recorder will love you for a long time.

[regebro]

Originally posted by Beck
Yes, that's right. It was in response to a specific question about whether a tape, which one wants to erase or degauss, should be erased before or after baking. Ok, I guess if someone wasn't following the thread they might think you should degauss every tape you bake even if you want to keep what's on it.

Yes. Especially since there is absolutely no reason to bake a tape that you want to erase.

Tapes get sticky because of a faulty binder formula. This binder will degrade with time (and moisture), and slowly get sticky. The baking of tapes is a way to recure the tape binder, to make the tape unsticky again. When this is done, the tape may indeed run as new.

But! These tapes will continue to degrade, and will therefore need baking again, sooner or later. Yes, just as it took years for them to get sticky in the first place, it will probably take quite a while for them to get sticky again. But when that happens, you need to bake them. Do you really want to record your stuff on tape which needs to be baked every five years? No, you don't.

Tapes with the bad formula should be baked, copied, and either thrown away, or kept in an airtight seal for posterity. They should not be used, because everytime you get them out of the airtight seal, they will attract moisture, and slowly get stickier and stickier. In fact, some manufacturers claim the binder will degrade even without moisture, all that is needed is time. (It may depend on which manufacturer, because they all use slightly different formulas).

If you don't want to keep what's on them, you may just as well throw them away. If you don't want to keep them, and you don't want anybody else to hear what is in them, you can bulk erase them without baking them at all. If you are totally paranoid and you want the SHRED the tapes, then bake them and bulk erase them first, or they may stick in the shredder.

[ahmedgarcia]

wow, this is great stuff. I am going to print this thread...

[Beck]

Originally posted by regebro
If you are totally paranoid and you want the SHRED the tapes, then bake them and bulk erase them first, or they may stick in the shredder.

Oh hell, in that case save a few steps and bake them in a conventional oven at 475 degrees for 4 hours...

[Han]

In that case one hour will be sufficient

[Beck]

Originally posted by Han
In that case one hour will be sufficient

True enough, but he said "paranoid."

[BillyFurnett]

So does Ampex Grandmaster 456 predate Quantegy?
(When did Quantegy enter the picture?)

I checked out a 3M tape I have and noticed a little icon which reads "Proud sponser of the 1988 olympic games" LOL

[Beck]

QUOTE]Originally posted by BillyFurnett
So does Ampex Grandmaster 456 predate Quantegy?
(When did Quantegy enter the picture?)[/QUOTE]

Quantegy Inc bought Ampex in 1995. It was a few years later that they started branding product with the Quantegy logo. I've got Ampex branded tape from as late as 1998, but Quantegy already owned it. Quantegy also bought the rights to some tape formulations from BASF and AGFA, one of which led to the development of GP9 in 1998.

All these companies have acquired things from each other over the years. Some of the Current BASF/Emtec formulas also came from AGFA.

Quantegy's plastic tape care box was acquired from 3M. I think Quantegy ended up with about everything when everyone else bailed from the open reel tape scene.

Here's some Ampex/Quantegy history from the source.

http://www.quantegy.com/history.asp

[BillyFurnett]

Cool thanks Beck

[regebro]

I like that they call they blank CD's "Digital 2-track".

[ahmedgarcia]

we are going to get a dehydrator. Will tell you how it turns out. Yea!!!