How is this cascading pan effect done?

[bsanfordnyc]

I'm trying to reproduce a cover song from scratch...

for reference, it's "Oceans" by Pearl Jam off the Ten album.

The guitar has an interesting effect:

on the verse part, he is basically raking over the strings somewhat slowly, and as he does this, it pans from right to left. it's almost like each string is set to a different pan position.
it has sort of a cascading effect...each time he rakes the strings it goes from right to left. very subtly cool, and I never noticed it until I listened to the song on my studio monitors.

Anybody have any idea how this could be done?

[TexRoadkill]

It sounds like it's just a delay. The original panned R and the delay L.

[bsanfordnyc]

I don't think it's delay... the entire strum is not delayed left to right...as he rakes the pick from the low string to the high string, the sound pans right to left. (he's raking all 6 strings) so for the first 3 low strings the sound goes from right to middle, and the last 3 high strings continue panning hard left.

Like I said, it's as if each string has a seperate pan position from right to left.


Still think it's delay??

[ryanlikestorock]

I just downloaded the track to give it a listen. I think it's just two guitars panned L&R with some slight chorus and delay and reverb processing. Try that and see what you get. Maybe a slight stereo chorus...

[Tekker]

Originally posted by bsanfordnyc
I don't think it's delay... the entire strum is not delayed left to right...as he rakes the pick from the low string to the high string, the sound pans right to left. (he's raking all 6 strings) so for the first 3 low strings the sound goes from right to middle, and the last 3 high strings continue panning hard left.

Like I said, it's as if each string has a seperate pan position from right to left.


Still think it's delay??

I've never heard the song, but I do know that effect... It's a stereo pickup (I don't know the brand name) but the guitarist's dad for my old band was working on a guitar and he was going to install stereo pickups that would do that exact effect. Unfortunately our band broke up and we stopped jammin' together before he finished the guitar, so I never got a chance to hear it!

-tkr

[bsanfordnyc]

Originally posted by Tekker
I've never heard the song, but I do know that effect... It's a stereo pickup (I don't know the brand name) but the guitarist's dad for my old band was working on a guitar and he was going to install stereo pickups that would do that exact effect. Unfortunately our band broke up and we stopped jammin' together before he finished the guitar, so I never got a chance to hear it!

-tkr

A stereo pickup! That sounds expensive! But, sounds like the correct answer.

thanks man

[headstack]

It might be triggered auto panning...
I'd have to hear the track to make any sort of educated opinion.

[faderbug]

Originally posted by headstack
It might be triggered auto panning...
I'd have to hear the track to make any sort of educated opinion.

LOL

[formerlyfzfile]

I'm not saying that it wouldnt be some sort of trick gear becuase the one dude from Pearl Jam has a warehouse full of guitars (literally)..........

............but I dont think it would be beyond the pros to simply have one hand on that particular guitar's (or group of guitar's) channel pan knob and just pan the guitar manually during the mixdown.

Like ...the mix engineer says to the toilet cleaner and coffee runner...uh I mean intern.." Hey you. Yes you. Come here and put your hand on that knob right there. DONT touch ANYTHING else. Now, when we get to here, you are going to turn that knob from here! to here! (demonstrating)....and you are going to do it on a four count....very evenly.....very slowly. You are going to try to do it soooo slick that when people listen to it they will think its some kind of cool delay unit or some trick stereo guitar pick-up. GOT IT!!?? Good. O.k.....GO!"

-mike

[bsanfordnyc]

I agree, but I tried to reproduce it that way and it was pretty clear that it wasn't that simple. Because it doesn't just pan back and forth..the beginning of each stroke starts right, then moves left...so there could still be some sustain on the left while he's hitting those top strings and creating something on the right. It made me think of waves,which could possibly be the point...considering the song is titled "oceans". Maybe those guys are bigger genuises than most people are aware of...

you should listen to it with your monitors

[Shadik]

Originally posted by bsanfordnyc
I'm trying to reproduce a cover song from scratch...

for reference, it's "Oceans" by Pearl Jam off the Ten album.

The guitar has an interesting effect:

on the verse part, he is basically raking over the strings somewhat slowly, and as he does this, it pans from right to left. it's almost like each string is set to a different pan position.
it has sort of a cascading effect...each time he rakes the strings it goes from right to left. very subtly cool, and I never noticed it until I listened to the song on my studio monitors.

Anybody have any idea how this could be done?

Thiers a wave program called MondoMod.

[pdaniels]

I've acheived some pretty funky panning feats using manually drawn automation in Cubase SX. You can draw the automation for panning using a "pencil" tool as if you were drawing a picture. It's very simple to match up the panning path you are drawing to the wave image because you can view one above the other, and magnify the images as much as you want.

I don't know what system you use, but see if it has this capibility...total control of everything is pretty sweet....

[TexRoadkill]

I still think it's just a delay because you can hear the entire strum on each channel.. Put the track on one channel then copy the track to another and offset it by the delay amount you want. Pan each hard L/R.

[bsanfordnyc]

Originally posted by pdaniels
I've acheived some pretty funky panning feats using manually drawn automation in Cubase SX. You can draw the automation for panning using a "pencil" tool as if you were drawing a picture. It's very simple to match up the panning path you are drawing to the wave image because you can view one above the other, and magnify the images as much as you want.

I don't know what system you use, but see if it has this capibility...total control of everything is pretty sweet....

that does sound pretty f'ing dope! I've got Cubase SX but I haven't started using it yet until I buy a new computer capable of maximizing its potential. So far i've been using the mixer within my Korg Triton Studio

[bsanfordnyc]

Originally posted by TexRoadkill
I still think it's just a delay because you can hear the entire strum on each channel.. Put the track on one channel then copy the track to another and offset it by the delay amount you want. Pan each hard L/R.

I'll give it a shot!

[Axis]

Originally posted by bsanfordnyc
I agree, but I tried to reproduce it that way and it was pretty clear that it wasn't that simple. Because it doesn't just pan back and forth..the beginning of each stroke starts right, then moves left...so there could still be some sustain on the left while he's hitting those top strings and creating something on the right. It made me think of waves,which could possibly be the point...considering the song is titled "oceans". Maybe those guys are bigger genuises than most people are aware of...

you should listen to it with your monitors

try that with a really long delay on it

[Nitronium Blood]

What about Dynamic Panning?
I use Adbe Audition.

[c7sus]

In the mid-70's Phil Lesh was using an Alembic bass with seperate outs for each string. So that has been available for a while.

I would think trying to do the effect you're describing with a virtual pencil would be a real pain in the ass.

[bsanfordnyc]

true...

seems like there is probably a multitude of ways to pull this off

[ds21]

Pink Floyd use to use, either a stereo pickup, or a separate pickup/output for each string.

[bsanfordnyc]

awesome...

i suspect you have to go see PF live to understand the depth of their music

[octa b nuova]

i've got this old IVL pickup and rackmount unit that reads each string seperately and then writes MIDI tones for every note. It was made in the early 80's, and it's alot like Roland's guitar synth except you can send MIDI signals with it (to a keyboard, sequencer, etc). Maybe our boyz in Pearl Jizam were using something like this.

[bsanfordnyc]

I can imagine a few interesting uses for such a device....

how much do you want for it?

[pennylink]

Just had a thought... it's similar to what pdaniels explains with manually drawn automation in Cubase, except I use Sonar, which I don't think can do it that way.

You could zoom in on the part where you want to apply the "cascading" effect, split the wave into however many parts you like (say, every time a new note starts), then apply different clip pan automation to each part/note, starting with panning on one side and gradually moving to the opposite side with each part/note.

Any software that has pan automation should be able to do that, plus you wouldn't have to go buy new pick-ups or plug-ins.

I have a song that includes several long cymbal swells that I want to try that with. Thanks for that great idea, bsanfordnyc

[freeztar]

I'll have to go with Tex, it sounds like good ole delay to me, but this is how it sounds to me. It sounds like they left one track clean, or basically clean with a little flange and a touch of distortion. Then it sounds like they did a stereo delay panning with a doubled track. It also sounds like there's different Qs there.
Anyone else hear something similar?