help! with otari 1/2" eight track...

[skullfisher]

hi, this is my first post...

I'm new to analog recording. I'm setting up an otari mx5050 1/2" eight track. I just started aligning the machine. however when playing a test tone into the mixer, which is routed to an input on the otari, I'm not getting any signal to tape...?

I have the manual and I've followed the instructions for recording (sounds simple: flip desired channel to 'ready' mode, switch to 'individual', flip desired channel to 'input').

I just can't figure out for the life of me why there isn't any signal going to tape.

I've tried bypassing the console and going direct into the otari... still nothing.

any suggestions? I'm baffled.

[The Ghost of FM]

The only thing you haven't mentioned is if you have pressed the REC button?

Besides arming the track when the tape is not rolling, you must also press the REC button along with the play button.

If you are doing this but just failed to mention it, we have to look elsewhere.

When you play the test tone on your tone generator, is the signal showing up on the Otari's meter?

Also, some history on the machine would be nice here.
You say you are new to recording. How long have you had this Otari machine?

Have you successfully recorded anything else on it before?

Why are we, (you) assuming that the machine needs to be calibrated?

Did the previous owner give you an indication that this would be necessary because of someone's monkeying around with the machine and this needing to be done to get the machine back to normal?

Did the previous owner tell you that the machine was defective in any way?

Cheers!

[skullfisher]

yup, no worries! the previous user didn't say it was defective in any way. but then he drove it to my house, which is about three hours away. something could have happened during the transportation?

I've been hitting play and record.

I know I can play back correctly because I was able to align the vu meters and repro hi freq with an mrl tape.

however, when trying to record tones I'm not getting any signal on input. even though I know tone is coming out of the console, there's no sound of it going into the otari.

I've tried different cables and channels... nothing.

I checked to make sure the cards are seated firmly into the machine, all seems fine there.

I'm not sure what else to do.

should I get another otari and keep this one for parts???

[The Ghost of FM]

Where are you getting this test tone from to input to the MX5050?

I hope it is not from your MRL tape!? If it is, you can't simultaneously play a test tone from a test tape and record it back onto the same tape. Please tell me you are not doing this!

If your tones are coming from a tone generator and the rest of the monitoring is switched and routed properly, (verified by owner's manual!!), then you do indeed have a ghost in the machine and it's not me.

Best to seek out a qualified technician and investigate the interior of the machine, in shop, to see if something has indeed come loose from the 3 hour drive.

If it is a real technicians issue, I'm sure the machine is worth fixing and not just scraping for parts.

Cheers!

[skullfisher]

Originally posted by The Ghost of FM
[B]Where are you getting this test tone from to input to the MX5050?

I hope it is not from your MRL tape!? If it is, you can't simultaneously play a test tone from a test tape and record it back onto the same tape. Please tell me you are not doing this!

no worries, it is DEFINITELY outputting via my fostex tone generator and NOT mrl tape!

If your tones are coming from a tone generator and the rest of the monitoring is switched and routed properly, (verified by owner's manual!!), then you do indeed have a ghost in the machine and it's not me.

Best to seek out a qualified technician and investigate the interior of the machine, in shop, to see if something has indeed come loose from the 3 hour drive.

yup... 1k tone from fostex tone generator... its routed properly, etc... I've tried bypassing the mixing console, the patchbay, until its a tone generator direct into the input... still, nothing!

I'll open it up again and see if there's something isn't seated properly... it seems strange that it would playback fine but not record... ???

[skullfisher]

well, I've wrestled with it for a little bit longer; looks like the problem is definitely with the otari.

my signal chain is fine. it plays back all 8 tracks perfectly. it's something else.

it's something that has to do with:

1. otari xlr inputs
2. record head
3. record switches?

I just can't understand why everything seems to be working EXCEPT the record function... am I missing something obvious?

[The Ghost of FM]

Originally posted by skullfisher
I just can't understand why everything seems to be working EXCEPT the record function... am I missing something obvious?

Without seeing your machine and having the owner's manual in front of me to verify all the switch positions needed for a successful recording, I can't answer that question for you.

I wish I was more familiar with the Otari machine to really step you through it.

Don't loose all hope!

Perhaps an Otari owner/user will be along to answer your question.

In the meantime, perhaps check some other bbs sites and see if there is some insight there.

Sincerely, Good luck!

[The Ghost of FM]

One final thought;

Do you have a digital camera?

If so, could you take a picture and post it here of the deck that shows some detail of the track arming switches to see if there is something obvious that might draw an "ah-ha!" reaction?

Cheers!

[skullfisher]

surely!

I'll take a photo tonight and post asap.

thanks!

[skullfisher]

otari photo, click here!

here is a photo, I hope you can make it out.

I'm trying to record on track 8 here, with no signal getting to the vu meters or the record head.

also, the input selector button, below vu meter 8, is engaged and the knob is turned up; I was trying different combos to see if I could get a signal.

hope this photo gives some indication of the problem.

also, could it be possible that the record head is fried? I demagnetized the heads, moving extremely slow, no rapid movements, and didn't touch the heads themselves... but I wonder if something could have happened in that proccess?

I've demagnetized heads many times without problems, but maybe the record head was getting ready to go anyway? or could I have accidentally magnetized it?

[skullfisher]

sorry to keep posting to myself...

someone on another forum suggested that it could be the unbalanced inputs... pin 3 is hot, unlike standard mic cables today.

I'm going to borrow some 'old skool' mic cables today and see if that's the problem...

fingers crossed and bright eye'd

[The Ghost of FM]

I don't think it's the head because even it were gone completely, (which I highly doubt!), your vu meter would still show an incoming signal when monitoring INPUT mode so, It sounds like the signal isn't getting to the electronics of the channel card at all which could indeed mean that the pin wiring might be bad.

Let's hope the cable is the culprit here and that after re-soldering a few cables you are back in business.

Cheers!

[skullfisher]

here's what someone told me on another forum:

Assuming that you bought it used, it's possible (though it would be weird) that someone modified the outputs but not the inputs.

On my deck, at least, the XLRs are all pin 3 hot unbalanced.

On a modern, standard, balanced XLR, pin 2 is hot, pin 3 is the signal polarity-reversed, and pin 1 carries the ground.

On some older equipment, though, XLRs are balanced pin 3 hot.

Then there's the Otari. For reasons even the Otari guys couldn't explain to me, the Otari's XLR's carry signal on pin 3, ground is on pin 1, and on pin 2... nothing. (The manual just suggests jumpering pin 2 to pin 1 on input cables.)

So it's basically functioning like a standard 1/4" phone plug. A standard mic cable would be feeding polarity-reversed signal to pin 3, though, so I would think you'd still get a sound, and the cables probably aren't the problem. (Which I guess reverses what I suggested in my previous post... sorry. It's been a while since I've worked on mine.)

A simpler thing you could try, if you haven't yet... try recording the built-in test oscillator. If it records, then you know the record head is basically ok, and your problem is probably somewhere else.

well, I'm going to try and record the built-in test tone. hope it works...

[The Ghost of FM]

I've got my fingers crossed for you, man!

Good luck & let us know what happened.

Cheers!

[Paulie]

If you're using a 1/4 inch to xlr cable you're grounding the hot on the Otari therefore closing the input gain. Plug a standard mic and cable into the input to see if you get the meter to read. The mic will have enough gain to drive it a little. If it works then you need to rewire that tone generator cable.

[skullfisher]

thanks everyone, I'm in business!

I recorded the built-in tone oscillator from the otari onto a track... that proved that the record head was functioning correctly and ruled it out as a possible problem. (why didn't I think of that before??)

just so happens a friend of mine has some xlr - 1/4" cables that were wired especially for the otari... he got them free with a mixer a long time ago and has never used them.

I used them on the input and voila! tone, sweet tone!

I'm still not sure why the output works fine with standard mic cables. I can only assume that since this unit was previously used at a college, maybe only the output was modified for standard cables (perhaps it was used for playback only??).

anyhoo

the point is, it's up and running... and I couldn't be happier!!!

thanks again everyone, I couldn't have done it without you!

[Derek Verner]

I just LOVE these happy endings!

[The Ghost of FM]

Originally posted by skullfisher
thanks again everyone, I couldn't have done it without you!

You welcome!

All though, I didn't actually have the direct answer for you.

My only real useful advice was to seek out someone with more knowledge about Otari recorders then myself and you did that on your own so, congratulations to you!

Cheers and happy recording!

[Vintage TX]

The Otari connections have bugged me in the past also.
Sold a deck and the new owner went out and bought some strange XLR-cables to RCA. It didn't work.
Until you know about pin 3 and pin 1 you are in the dark.

Good Luck now !

[spacehatch]

This is my first post. Hi everybody. I just biased my 5050 last night. I already resoldered my input and output snakes and all that stuff and MRLed my input levels etc etc etc. Now, my problem... ON two or three of my tracks the bias pot stopped dead before I could get the desired 3db drop. Most dropped ok but a few only dropped about 2 db before the pot stopped dead... any body else run into this. I used a tube mp VU to check level as the tape vu's peaked out. I am pretty sure is did everything I was supposed to.

[MadAudio]

I don't have an answer for you, but I would suggest you start a new thread instead of burying your question at the bottom of a thread that no one has looked at for 6 months. You're more likely to get a quicker response that way.

[regebro]

The Tube MP´s VU is the internal level. Of course, in theory, if you set the output to 0 it should be the output level as well, however, I would not trust a tube MP with anything like that. They are notorioous for being badly calibrated.