Best amp for heavy distortion

[DropD]

I'm in the market for a combo amp that would give a really good distortion sound. It seems every metal band that have a great distortion sound (mainly Metallica) are using Mesa Boogie amps. So I tried a Nomad 55 and it was quite a good amp, sounded terrific for soloing, but was very muddy in the when mute-picking on the big E string. I tried toying a bit with the tone controls and couldn't make it work. It's too bad cause it was really a cool amplifier, with 3 channel, recording out, separate level control for solo mode, everything I'd need. But just too muddy on the low-end. I suspect a Dual Rectifier model would be better on that aspect, but I couldn't try one (or is it that I didn't ask for it since the price was 3 times what I wanted to pay). Is this right? Would a Dual Rectifier do everything I want?

The next amp I tried was a Line6 Flextone XL, the one with 2 12" drivers. It sounded quite good, specially the dual rectifier mode, but I don't know, there's something about this amp that make it sounds artificial (well actually it is artificial, it's digital modeling). But for the price (999$), it was the only good sound amp I could find.

Do you guys have a suggestion for an amp that would give a killer heavy metal sound, in the 800-1300$ range, a combo with 1 or 2 12" drivers. I'm thinking about trying a JCM2000 TSL (I really need 3 channels), but all the Marshall I tried had this overly bright tone which I don't like. Anyway... suggestions welcome.

[Electric Acid]

Well, If your in the neighbourhood for a good amp for around a grand, you can check out alot of Used Musical Instrument stores, I picked up a used Marshall JCM 800 for about 400$ canadian and a 4x12 cab for about 350$ and for saying marshall has a bright tone, well u have to check out the older marshalls because they totally rock. im into extreme metal and id trust an old marshall over a new boogie.. ive have this amp fall of the cabinet, thrown onto the ground and kicked and fallen on and the worst that has ever happened, is the input jacks had to be replaced from the amp falling onto its face on the ground. these things are built to last... mine is a 1976 and its gonna last another 30 years..


Electric Acid - (Nick)

[DropD]

Oh, reliability isn't what concerns me )
I never had any problem with my amps and I'll have a backup amp during gigs anyway, I'm looking strictly for sound. A big powerful distortion with a tight low-end, not that muddy sound I get from most rock-oriented tube amps.

[Viking]

Look, here is how it is,
The Mesa Boogie Line is great for recording or being miced through a P.A. but to play out with an amp (I'm guessing you like severe saturation from your user name !) you need a marshall, or a copy ( I play a 100watt Carvin head with EL34's , very rare and british sounding ). Try the valve-state series. yOU CAN GET A BRAND NEW HALF STACK FOR UNDER A GRAND WITH A FIVE YEAR WARRANTY! These amps use a tube preamp and solid state poweramp, sound cool and are great for recordig as they have a built in cabinet emulator line out that sounds great. Oh, and gain for days. If you are looking for that tube tone I suggest a Carvin head like mine. One can be found on Ebay for about $250 and it is basically a hot-rodded Marshall. ( 5 12ax7 tubes in the preamp and built in power soak, selectable Ohm output. It's the ultimate amp!
Mesa's are great for the studio but unless you are playing in a stadium you'll never reach the good gain unless you crank them. Metallica uses Mesa cabs and power amps but their sound is strictly rack format. Can you say about 5,000 in rack mount modules make the Metallica crunch happen! Watch 'Year and A half in the life..' and you will see what I mean.
The Valvestate is the closest you can come for the money. Another cool amp is the Fender Roc Pro Head, it uses 12ax7 tubes for the preamp and is the closest head I have ever heard to Dimebag's sound. (Pantera).
Good luck whatever you choose, but Mesa's are over priced for the performing musician.
The only Mesa I think is cool is the Triple Rectifier, which is like $2500 !. I'll never own this head unless I'm touring!

Viking_______________________________________

[dmcsilva]

Man,

Boogies are sooo much better than Marsha..........just kidding.

They both have their strong points, I have one of each so it's the best of both worlds. However, I personally wouldn't get a valvestate. A tube preamp basically does nothing for achieving great tone or saturation. True saturation comes only from Power tubes being cranked HARD and overdriving a speaker.

As far as not hearing the sound your looking for from the Boogie, no matter which amp you choose, you will need to get some form of distortion box/fx unit if you want really high gain. Viking mentioned Metallica's rig...he's right; and not too many guitarist's out there known for their high gain sound are using an unaltered guitar to amp signal. But each amp will lend its' own signature to the sound, above and beyond what a dist box adds to it. So I would suggest going with the tone you like best and dropping an extra c-note on a distortion pedal. If you go with a Marshall, I would recommend all-tube design, That's their bread and butter.

dmc

[Fishmed]

I have found two pre-amps that sound great:
the Roland GP-100 and the ADA MP2.

I use a Messa Boogie amp to power my cabinets. What I do to get a bigger sound is use to different brands of cabinets. I have a Marshall 1 - 12" to capture the low end, and a Messa Boogie 1 - 12" to get the high end crunch.

[DropD]

I tried a Valvestate before I got my Peavey amp (the one I have right now), and I didn't like the sound (now I know why! I always thought all Marshall were all-tube designs). They plug me in a Marshall the other day at the music store and it had enough gain for my taste, but the sound was too bright, I think it was a JCM-900, I'm not sure. Anyway, I've read a lot of good things about the JCM-2000 TSL and I'm gonna try it this week.

[S8-N]

I think it is safe to say that I run the heaviest guitar sound around here and I have never owned a single fx unit or distortion pedal. All you need is good active pickups (I use EMG's) and a good tube preamp. I run 200 watts through a marshall 4X12 and a Hiwatt 2X15. I use a stereo 30 band EQ to act as a crossover for the cabs.
For recording use a POD or whatever, for playing live you should use less distrortion than you think you need... Too much distortion onstage just makes everything sound hissy and the actual notes get obscured. (I've seen this happen with Pantera, too)
I've seen hundreds and hundreds of indie label touring bands playing small clubs and the best guitar and bass sounds have come from Mesa Boogie, although I'll never be able to afford one...

[Viking]

So this is sorta how it is..
If you want tube tone don't go with a distortion pedal (Solid state clipping through a tube pre-amp sounds like shit!) just crank it! For that over the edge sound use a Boss Super Overdrive and GE07 E.Q. pedal. (Ah-la Zakk Wylde).
If you want that solid state clip then you have many choices...
You don't like the valvestate? Try the Fender Roc Pro.
Get a pre-amp and a power amp. Like any Digitech. They are affordable and sound great out of the box.

How much money are we talking about here anyway? I'm giving ideas for under $800 but if you want (and you have a fat bank roll!!) I could send you a list of the 'ultimate, cream your pants, God is in my amp!' set-up. So question here is how much money. You can sound as good as what you can afford!
How about a list of who you listen to so we could tell what sound you're trying to get.

Good Luck,
Viking_______________________________________

[CellarCat]

Go for the Flextone . I am buying one in the new year, they are great ...you can get a tone for any type of music you want.... get the foot controller as well..The Peavey 5150 is a smokin amp as well but if i remember right quite expensive..

[Cooperman]

In wouldn't hurt while you are down at your local guitar shop to check out some Crate amps. I have an old GX120W combo (1x12) and for small reheasal environments it gives plenty!!! Crank it up to about 5 or 6 and your start to really drive the single speaker. It's only solid state but has an awesome dirty channel - the clean doesn't sound that great tho. I dunno how much they cost but you could also check out one of the Crate Blue Voodoo 2x12 combos - I've played thru a head and it is absolutely awesome!!!!!

Good luck!

[DropD]

I bought the Flextone XL finally ( 2 12" drivers, 100W). I tried the Marshall JCM2000 and I loved it, lots of gain on the lead channel, but twice the price. And I couldn't decide if I preferred the Rectifier tone or the Marshall tone, so now I have them both in my new Flextone ).
So far I'm happy with it, powerful enough for what I need it for (I still have my Peavey 160W head for "heavy duties"). I wouldn't say it really recreates the Marshall, yeah the sound is "technically" the same, but it lacks, the liveness and the crispiness of the real Marshall. But it's a very good amp. The rectifier model has enough gain, even with the drive at 5, you can play ultra-heavy stuff.

[Top Jimmy]

Hey,I think this whole thing on what sounds the best is very personal. So here's my opinon. Get a used Marshall 25/50 Jubilee Head used and a 4 x 12 cab with Celestions. Or Any Marshall 50 watt tube head. If you go 100 watts you need a power soak to let you turn it up to get a good sound. 50 watts is plenty for clubs and recording. And no the valvestate line from Marshall does not sound as good as the tube, I've had both.

I sold my Jubilee Head and Cabinet 10 years ago when my band broke up, Its was the dummest move of my life. I have never heard a better rig since.

Top Jimmy

[Viking]

OK, congrats on the new amp,
I'll have to try the flextone. I bet it's great for recording. So let us know.

[DropD]

I tried recording using the line-out feature (with micing simulation) and it isn't that great. I could get better results with my RP-7, I think I'll just mic the speaker next time )

[S8-N]

50 watts for playing small clubs??? I push 200 watts all the way cranked and sometimes that's barely enough... I dont like running through a PA and having some boob of a drunk "soundman" ruin my sound. I do tune down pretty low though (ADGBEA) and the lower you tune, the more power you need to push that air.
Like J.R. "bob" Dobbs said: "Too much is always better than not enough."

[DropD]

Hehe, wait till I fire up my rig the way I want next time we rehearse. Right now I was running a Peavey 160W solid-state amp, using my Digitech RP-7 for distortion duties. Now what I'll do is I'll use my Flextone XL (100W) as loud as it will go, and I will do a line-out to my Peavey head (with 4X12 cab) using the effect send. I'll have a total a 260W ), and since with the Flextone, the tone is created within the preamp, which is not the case with tube preamp, you need the full amp circuitry to have the real tone, I'll have the same tone through those 260W )

[foo]

This is a pretty interesting thread. Just to throw in my two cents:

I went to a workshop given by Robben Ford one time in Los Angeles. For all you metal/thrash/death cult heads, he's arguably the finest jazz/blues exponent around. He was playing his own guitar (a Gibson 335) through a borrowed, trashed transistorized been-rode-hard-and-stabled-wet piece of crap which shall remain nameless (can you say L*b Series).

He sounded great!

I think you need to buy something decent, and then it's all down to whether you can play or not.

A great player is going to sound great on whatever he's got - no amount of money or sound processing gear can overcome an inability to play the right note or notes at the right time.

Merry Christmas to one and all, y'all.

foo

[c7sus]

I can't imagine ANYTHING more distorted than a Pignose! LOL

[Codeman]

You might try a used Boogie MK IV combo amp, though you will want to run it through a 4X12 cab to get the deep lows. Set the graphic eq to a deep V and use channel 3 with the lead drive on 10 and the gain on 10, also, pull "Fat". That's pure metallica with no stompbox needed. Add bass to taste. I run a MKIV head and get plenty of crunch on channel 2 (My rhythm channel) with the Pull "Fat" and the gain on 10. If you need more go to channel 3, set like I described. You should be able to find a used MK IV for around $800. Cut out the Deep V and you get a great classic Metal sound a la Sabbath's "Heaven and Hell" era.

[Viking]

Ok Foo. Playing is important. But if you have a lame sounding guitar or a terrible feel to the instrument you will just wanna quit!!! I hung out back stack at a Gov't Mule concert one night with Warren Haynes. He was playing the guitar the radio station was having the band sign for a promo shot. He couldn't stand it. Because it was a sucky Squire strat! And he is a great player!

[foo]

I rest my case!

foo

[monty]

Just get a POD and play it through anything.

[Electric Acid]

Hey S8-N, u know, just cause u tune down to some insane tuning, doesnt mean that its heavy... ive seen bands pull off the heaviest stuff ive EVER heard tuned to the regular EADGBE... its just the guitar tone and how powerful the song is. i could grab one of those ibanez 7 stringers, and play raffy and it wouldent sound heavy at all... just depends on the dynamics of the song and the energy man...

[S8-N]

I was about to answer your "beefy guitar" question but I guess my sound isn't heavy enough for ya.