What picking technique is this?

[guitarist]

I've mostly seen it done by shredders..where the arm & wrist stay mostly still and they just use their fingers to move the pick. Not sweep picking, but rather when they are just picking individual notes.

[SemiCrazy]

Sounds like you are desribing "flat picking" or "cross picking"which is technique use in flat picking much better executed by Doc Watson and Tony Rice than shedder guys.

History lesson:
Its boring to strum all the time.
So bluegrass mandolin and guitar players develoved a way to enable them to play the super fast and technical melody runs in traditional irish and american fiddle tunes that were usualy played by the 1st fiddle.

Cross picking is a form of flat picking were you cross over strings in order to play the notes of a run effiecently. You play the melody by picking out the notes on individual strings alternating from string to string in a fixed patern while also keeping the beat going by including the root note of the chord in the pattern by crossing back over all of the strings you just played. Think of it as playing Chet Attkins finger style without using you thumb or two picking fingers. All you have is one flat pick.

And you thought blugrass was just a bunch of hillbilly folks playing simple music.



Here are some examples. First shed style.....

http://www.guitarsidekick.com/audio/lessons/ap1-1.ram (Fast Audio)

And Bluegrass style flatpicking with some cross picking. The sample is and old fiddle song "********** Blossom"

http://www.bencoker.com/audio/bluegrass.mp3 (Fast Audio)

[musicsdarkangel]

It's also possible that you are talking about chicken picking

err Chickn' Pickn'

Bluegrass style, Zakk Wylde does it. A cool little technique.


Try this


Play the 7th fret on the g string then the 9th fret on the g string, then the 7th fret on the b string


Do this by picking down, then picking up (no wrist or arm, just fingers), then pulling off with your middle finger on the b string


So how is the first example different then alternate picking? Sorry it's a bit unclear to me.

[guitarist]

Hmm, I dont think thats what I mean. I'm simply talking about picking (using a pick though, not fingerstyle picking) by moving the thumb and index finger, instead of using the wrist or elbow. My picking style is more similar to Paul Gilberts and its starting to cause pain in my wrist so I figured the other way might be better.

[grinder]

My old guitar teacher picked like that.He would anchor his fingers below the high e string and pick by moving just his thumb and index fingers.I occationaly pick like that but, after a while my thumb muscle cramps and it gets hard to hold the pick.

[Wireneck]

describing alternate picking from what i can tell? I wouldn't say that it was really any different than if your hand wasn't sitting in one spot. Some guys like it one way and others like it the other way. Personally I use a combination of my hand being fixed in one spot or not. Honestly it depends on how fast i have to play. If your doing some mad alternate picking at 200-250bpm plus like Emperor or something along those lines, my hand isn't going to be moving much.

[Chrisjob]

I think Wireneck is correct. It sounds like the 'shredders' are just using their fingers instead of their wrists because they can play at faster tempos.

It's the same techinique you use when palm muting, just dont press your hand to the strings.


Remember, you're losing versatility when you pick like this, as you can only cover a few strings, but in some cases its exactly what you need.

[SemiCrazy]

....did someone say because shedders can play faster?



Ya'll need to be enlightened. Most fiddle tunes and bluegrass is played between 200bpm to 250bpm.

http://www.tonyrice.com/cdcat/snds/trcd1_11.ram


The previous link is Tony Rice Unit playing at 220 bpm or so. This flatpicking guitar and mandolin---with no distortion or effects to hide behind.

Here are the Kruger Brothers. I can't even guess how fast this is.
This is no cumputer trick. I seen them do live many times.

http://www.doubletimemusic.com/mp3/dtm014-06.mp3

We've been playing fast as hell down here in the South long before Amps were even invinted.

You guys could always do like Racer X did in the 80's and attach guitr picks to an electric drill.

[coolasvanillaic]

Amazing...that was so crazy sounding. I think you just got me into Bluegrass, those guys are great players.

Matt

[musicsdarkangel]

I honestly think that Paul Gilbert has the best picking technique out there.


If that's hurting you, definitely see a doctor.

[JoelEric26]

Check out Chris Thile of Nickel Creek for some just plain sick, light speed mando picking. Sean Watkins of the same band is a smoking acoustic player as well. It's more bluegrass influenced pop than old school playing but . . . I swear these guys could punch Yngwie right the mouth with their chops.

[Agtronic]

OMG! THAT IS AMAZING! These guys are the original shredders! hahaha! Amazing!

I also just added bluegrass to my list. God it sounds so pleasing to the ears.

[musicsdarkangel]

holy ass

[musicsdarkangel]

btw, definitely check out Farm Fiddlin by Zakk Wylde of Black Label Society



Crazy chicken' pickin'


I believe you can sample it on cdnow.com under an album called Guitarists That Rule The World ...... not sure which volume

[SemiCrazy]

I am glad to see interest in bluegrass being sparked. There is SO MUCH great guitar playing out there that IS NOT rock metal or blues. You've got to keep broadening your musical horizions.

It's so cool for me to play out somewhere or sit in with a new group of guys and pull some Tony Rice licks out of my ass in the middle of "Love Struck Baby" or "Hells Bells" or slide some Django swing chops in a Rock-a-Billy or Merle Haggard tune as an intro to a guitar break.

Learning how to play other types of music has really opend up the door to improvising and mixing it up.

This could most likely start another thread, but here are is recommended listening for anyone venturing into the world of bluegrass.

(As a rule, stay away from late sixties Nashville induced bluegrass that was robbed of any soul and quality in pursuit of dollars and record sales.)

Tony Rice
Doc Watson
Jerry Douglas (dobro)
Lonesome River Band
Flatts and Scrugggs (50's and early 60's recordings)
J.D. Crow
Bluegrass Album Band
Kruger Brothers
Nickel Creek

These guys are the heavy wieghts of the bluegrass world and span everthing from traditional to folk to newgrass to spacegrass and should get you started in the right direction. Just like there is crappy metal and blues there is crappy bluegrass also. I would hate for any new interest to be ruined by someone buying a CD from an awlful group.

All kinds of info online also I can't say enough good things about Doc Watson And Tony Rice

http://www.tonyrice.com/
http://www.merlefest.org/DocsIntro.htm

[mixmkr]

all this talk, and you didn't even say the "Earl" word!!!

[outlawtorn86]

Originally posted by SemiCrazy
....did someone say because shedders can play faster?



Ya'll need to be enlightened. Most fiddle tunes and bluegrass is played between 200bpm to 250bpm.

http://www.tonyrice.com/cdcat/snds/trcd1_11.ram


The previous link is Tony Rice Unit playing at 220 bpm or so. This flatpicking guitar and mandolin---with no distortion or effects to hide behind.

Here are the Kruger Brothers. I can't even guess how fast this is.
This is no cumputer trick. I seen them do live many times.

http://www.doubletimemusic.com/mp3/dtm014-06.mp3

We've been playing fast as hell down here in the South long before Amps were even invinted.

You guys could always do like Racer X did in the 80's and attach guitr picks to an electric drill.

but using how many fingers? compared to one pick

[SemiCrazy]

Outlaw,
Tony Rice uses four fingers and one thumb on his left hand fretting the notes and two fingers on his right hand holding ONE FLAT PICK. Thats why its called flatpicking......

The second lick is the Kruger Brothers playing banjo......you do not flat pick banjo.

Hi Mix,

Yes I did use the Earl word......"Flatts and Scruggs" as in Lester Flatt and Earl Scruggs.....but should have read Scruggs and Flatt....damn dislexia

Earl is usualy not listed by himself in the CD rack but is ALWAYS listed under Scruggs and Flatt.

[headstack]

Just listened to that Kruger Bros. track...
I think I need a nap now!
That stuff always impresses.
Thanks for posting it.
Stack

[musicsdarkangel]

One thing you need to realize though, although they are awesome, is that they are pretty much rolling the same shape in different areas of the neck.


At least that's what my ears tell me.

[faderbug]

Originally posted by musicsdarkangel
One thing you need to realize though, although they are awesome, is that they are pretty much rolling the same shape in different areas of the neck.


At least that's what my ears tell me.

exacly but it's like that with most types of playing, people using the same scales and phrases over and over again in different keys and positions. that's why bluegrass sounds like bluegrass and yngwie sounds like yngwie.

[musicsdarkangel]

Rolling is very different then alternate picking. It is easier, he isn't alternate picking like Yngwie, instead he is rolling.


Basically rolling your hand so that all of the fingers pick. He's doing the same movement all over the neck.

[Dr Hoss]

HAHAHAHH! I love hearing peoples' reactions the first time they hear an awesome bluegrass player! Those banjo and mandolin guys that can REALLY get after it are something to behold....the cool part is that most of the really awesome ones you can see these days are over 60 years old! And some of us poor lowly guitar players have a hard time with a major scale in sixteenth notes at 60 bpm....oy, have we got a lot to learn, my fellow guitar enthusiasts!

[SemiCrazy]

Darkangel,

and shredding is just scales, right. And when Yiggie finger taps all those alternating notes with the fingers on his right hand, it counts as just using one pick since he is still holding it.


Don't underestimate these guys and explain away what they are doing.

Yes banjo players roll--picking with their thumb and two fingers, a style invinted by Earl Scruggs in the '40's, but the roll's pattern changes many times in a song and NO they are not just holding the same chord position on different places of the neck. Heavy metal power chords don't work on banjos. They are more complicated than that.

Ever seen a concert violinist play? The next time you do, watch their left hand and fingering. Thats what guitar and mandolin flatpickers and banjo players do.

If you didn't like the samples, that's fine. Just don't insult their playing and talant with some lame passive aggressive remark.

If rolling is so much easier, let hear you give it a try.

[Toonsmith]

Doesn't anybody around here like Al Di Meola. He's one of the better shredders and his music sounds good too!

Yowza!