split personality?

[Lorddiagram]

NOte: I posted this in reply to a topic on the mixdown forum but thought it would be interesting to hear the guitarist's opinion.

A question I often consider. First, out of curiousity, how many here began recording because they played a musical instrument? How many here consider themselves recording engineers first and muscians second or are you a "muscian" first and a "recording engineer" second?
------Second, especially if you consider yourself more the musciain, do you ever find your "creativity" "juice" or whatever, stifled because you are chock full of recording tech ideas, and equipment desires?

What's ya'lls (virginian, alright?) take on the musician/recording engineer relationship. Should they get in each others business?

[dmcsilva]

Hey Lorddiagram:

I began semi-seriously recording earlier this year but I have been a guitarist for 15 years. I definitely consider myself a guitarist first. However, I am starting to derive as much enjoyment from recording as I do from playing guitar and now bass. Yes, since I started recording, I have taken a more serious approach to bass (and I have learned that just because you can play guitar, does not mean that you can play bass). I am happily married, a baby is on the way, and I work full time, so it is hard for me to find time to jam with others during the week. Recording has actually unlocked my creativity by allowing me to jam with myself and to develop a better ear for musical interaction between instruments without having to schedule time with others to experience this. Don't get me wrong, playing with others is way better due to the variations in influences, style, and imagination among different indivduals, but for me and my schedule, home recording provides the next best thing.

At times, I find myself off on a tangent, completely engrossed in getting the best eq, compression, mix, etc... for a song, leaving behind the actual music creation part for a while. I wouldn't say I feel my creativity is stifled by this; as a matter of fact, I find the recording process to be just a different form of creativity which is every bit as rewarding as making music.

As I mentioned earlier, I have taken up bass; this is a direct result of home recording - gotta have a bass track. I am also finding the bass to be immensely rewarding and challenging (something I don't think I would have taken so seriously had I not pursued home recording). So this is a benefit that has enhanced my creativity. I haven't taken up drums yet, I just use Fruity Loops for my drum tracks.

To summarize this long-winded response, I have found nothing but benefits from being a musician that has taken up recording. I am still very much a newbie to recording, but so far I have found it and creating music to be the only two things in existence that I can do for hours upon hours upon days with no $$$$ compensation.

[This message has been edited by dmcsilva (edited 10-25-1999).]

[Slackmaster2K]

Like dmcsilva mentioned, I too started recording because I didn't have anyone reliable to jam with...and I'm pretty busy so I guess I'm not "reliable" either

Where I've been torn is now that I'm recording, I'm starting to do some things that I absolutely hate. For instance, I can't stand it when a band records a song where it's impossible for them to easily play it live WIHTOUT sequencers and crap like that. Basically, if you've got one guitar player, don't record 10 guitar tracks. If you don't have an orchestra, don't record an orchestra. I usually record a single bass line and a single rhythm guitar line and then a lead track over the top. Thereby a three or four piece band could play the tune without getting carried away.

But.......once you start getting into a tune you come up with more and more ideas until suddenly you're pushing the envelope on tracks. I guess the whole thing boils down to, "would it still be effective live without fancy equiment?". If the answer is no then I won't like it much.

HOWEVER, the tune I'm recording now is based on this messed up "waking dream" I had the other night. It scared the shit out of me so the tune is going to be eerie and requires a lot of crap that wouldn't work live. Hmmm. Torn, see?

But then I start thinking musically. If I'm breaking my code but it's necessary for the music then I'll do it. I just like to keep it to a minimum...same goes with effects and "fake" instruments. Just my opinion though. Fake instruments and massive tracking does work in some styles of music, but not standard rock or blues...I guess the question is and always has been..."what do I want to play today"

I'm definately a guitar player before anything, and I use recording primarily as a means of songwriting. In fact I can't play my guitar anymore without hitting the record button. It's nice to lay some stuff out and hear what it's going to sound like without having to wait for your bass player to wake up. Plus it's all ME which is exactly what I need right now because I've never done it before and therefore don't really have a good hold on my abilities.

Hmmm...

Slackmaster 2000

[loudnaybor]

Wow, I could have written either one of the previous posts myself. The similarities are truly strange. I actually started recording on a little Tascam 4 track, just as a way to document the songs I'd written.
It wasn't long before I figured out that I liked playing this way and started spending mo' money, mo' money......
Now I need more insurance coverage for my spare bedroom than I do for my car and I'm not even close to having all the toys I want.
Sometimes it's hard to convince myself that it's worth it, but it's comforting to know that there are "others".

[Brad]

I began recording after playing for a couple of years. It started as a way for me to still make music despite incredibly insane stage fright.

[tmcbrinn]

I would consider myself a songwriter before anything. I've never been interested in one particular instrument over another, the overall picture is more important. I started recording for 2 reasons: I could never find a band to play with who is into my kind of music, and recording gives me a chance to learn about every instrument on its own, then how to put them all together. The two go hand and hand though. A great band will never get anywhere if they can't somehow produce decent sounding recorded material.

[Rhoadz]

I'm gonna jump into the guitarist first and
engineer second camp. I'm still in school and
my science major makes it impossible to participate
in the music classes or bands on campus. After
jamming with a kawai pocket band and a tascam
porta 03 in my dorm room a few years ago i was
hooked. Now i've got an apt and some wonderful
new toys. Guitar was always a release, a way
to relieve stress. Recording has taken that to an
entirely new level. It's not just something that keeps me sane anymore. Now I have a hobby that excercises creativity and gives me so much joy that i MAKE the time to play and record. The two activities work in such harmony for me its scary. If i wasn't so far into my current academic career this sublime activity might very well have changed my choice of education. I could go on and on but that's the gist of it.

[CMiller]

I've been recording in some form or another since I started playing 15 years ago. But it hasn't been until a couple years ago that I got serious about my home studio. Since I made that initial investment, I've completely revolutionized the way I look at my music, and the way I write. I'm far more cognizant of the whole picture. I take chances that I never would have, simply for the song's sake.

I haven't found the dual role to be stifling in any way. It's been a total creative challenge from one part to the next.

[bpmufx]

I think someone should be asking our wives what they think of us futzing around till 3:00 AM while they're sleeping alone.

[loudnaybor]

I'm divorced....... I guess that answers that question, eh?

[audioforgery]

I'm divorced too! I think the Les Paul put the final nail in that coffin

I'm definately a guitarist first, so I think I started recording in order to specifically do things I couldn't do live. Its funny, but only musicians are held to a standard of recreating what they do remotely. You wouldn't go to a gallery opening expecting a painter to perfectly recreate every famous piece he's known for.

[dmcsilva]

I'm still happily married, I think the secret is stealthily creeping into bed. When busted, plead ignorance.

[bpmufx]

OK, but its a problem you must deal with if you're sneaking "OUT" of bed to go to the setup. Divorce seems to be the answer. I'll go check with my wife to see how she likes it.

[tdukex]

I've been playing guitar for 20 years and know I'll never have the technical ability to be a CD-selling or performance musician. Nor do I have the desire, time, or energy to become a pro-caliber engineer. However, by soliciting the musical wares of this digital seductress, I can use my songwriting talents to hopefully produce marketable demos that will sell songs, not music per se.

I also slink into the bedroom around 2:00 a.m. on weekends and slide under the sheets. It helps if you have a big bed. If questioned, I just tell my wife I couldn't sleep...and it's true!

[This message has been edited by tdukex (edited 11-08-1999).]

[Buck62]

I'm a musician/songwriter first, and an engineer/producer second. As much as computers and software have allowed non-musicians to "write music", ya just can't beat the sound of REAL guitars, bass, drums, and percussion. As a songwriter, creativity has never been a problem. I have piles of songs that are waiting to be recorded. The problem is, I'm such a perfectionist when it comes to recording, that it slows me down trying to get everything part "just right".

[bpmufx]

Buck 62 reminds me of why I bother trying to record at all: the fact is that most of probably would love nothing more than to have our own music performed live wih real live musicians. For me, this is my M.O. to gaining a blue print for for all the sonic variations available that other musicians/composers never had. If Beethoven had a synth, he'd have been driven mad with too much choice and no way of showing what he wanted on notation alone.

[cricketking]

I am a songwriter first(describing myself as a musician is an insult to anyone who is a dedicated student of their instrument.) I have most of the basic instruments covered in my little cave--drums,bass,guitars,keys, but I'm not very proficient on any one...so to call myself a musician in a room full of musicians would be an invitation to ridicule. However, I personally feel that the relationship between engineering and playing is one of coexistence. I've been in bands that performed in good clubs playing my music, and yet I still find MUCH more satisfaction and pure joy writing, playing & recording the song alone in a room with blue christmas lights on the ceiling, incense burning(among other things)
and a pillow to lay my head on while listening to the rough mix in the 'phones--

As a side note, it still blows my mind that there's a place we can come to share opinions like these and learn from the experience of others.......this site rules.

have a good one
cricketking.

[RockIt Recorder]

Still interested in more tales? This one will make your day...

I picked up my first guitar in 1963... my life was never the same afterwards.

I walked into a studio for the first time in 1970. I was a young kid with one thing in my mind... I knew I wanted to play and couldn't bear the thought of having a 'real' job!

After seven more years of travelling (Coast to coast in the US and a few countries in Europe), I came into a pot of money that allowed me to purchase my first studio set up. (It seemed logical to me that given studio rates, I could make money and support my own habits at the same time).

Since then, it's been one insane ride.

I, too, lived through the death of a marriage... I think the trigger for that was the Gibson Firebird. (Although in my own defense: Before I got married the first time, I told her two things: 1) Don't EVER make me choose between her and the guitars; and 2) If I ever found a Gibson Firebird, I was buying it! Apparently, my luck was running good and some junkie player needed a fix. I found one in great shape. I bought it, she called the lawyer shortly thereafter).

I recently remarried a FINE piece of work.

She didn't flinch when she first was exposed to the room full of guitars. She didn't bat an eye when she first saw the seemingly endless collection of amps. Nor did she even think anything was amiss when I rolled out the cases of cables and wires and partz and other sundry hardware. She never complains (too much) about the late late nights or early early mornings when I slide into bed next to her. She turns on the electric blanket so it's warm when I get there. She also knew the travel schedule and although she doesn't love it, she puts up with it. I miss her when I travel but my days at home are grand.

The studio is full of more space age looking gear than she can comprehend but she still comes in and pops a set of Sony's on her head and dances around the room to a rhythm I can't even begin to imagine. She ships CD's to her relatives. She pimps my music more than I do. She doesn't even get all weird when I make comments about wanting to buy a D'Angelico New Yorker even though she knows that Gruhn is selling one for $40K. (I think I'm just dreamin' but who ever really knows, huh?)

So all you youngsters: Hang in there... live your dream first... find the right woman (later!) and your life will be complete. Mine is. Don't get impatient... it took me 36 years to get the recipe right and now I'm loving every minute of it.

Best wishes to all.

The guitar half of RockNGunz.

[Dom Franco]

What a great post!....my story is too long for this long string of replies...but I am: First a Songwriter, Musician, and Recording Nut in that order....

HEY DRAGON.. HOW ABOUT ANOTHER FORUM TOPIC?

"Recording Biographies" or "Studio War stories" .....you know...shared experiences in music, bands or home recording?

Thanks;
Sincerely;
Dom Franco

[Lorddiagram]

Rockit Recorder = you give me hope. Rock on my man.

[Slackmaster2K]

Dom Franco:

Good idea on the forum suggestion. I've been thinking that this place needs a few boards for aspects of music other than recording. Of course this is homerecording.com ....but there's so much more to recording music than technical jargon and equipment reviews. There's that personal side that we all like to talk about...stories and ideas that revitalize ambition.

Anyway, I think that a General Discussion forum would really take care of a lot of "I didn't know where to post this" messages. Maybe a whole new group of topics like the ones you suggested would be in order.

I tell ya what, that MP3 Mixing clinic has really inspired me at times. Hearing someone else describe their recording technique...and then downloading their tunes...it really drives me to keep working. And posts like this one by Rockit Recorder have the same effect.

I guess my point is that if this place is the "university" of home recording...then we need a student lounge

Rockit Recorder:

Great post. I went through a similar situation in which I didn't play the guitar much or write any music for about 2 years while living with a woman. "lot's of people talking/few of them know/the soul of a woman was created below" However, I got me a new woman now who is actually HELPING me to seriously get back into it. I think that you have to be very carefull with your love-life if you're going to play music. You need to look for the woman who doesn't flinch at your "wall of guitars."

Must be ten times harder for a woman as men are typically more insecure. I can't imagine my girlfriend staying up until 3 in the morning while I'm sleeping. I guess that's why all female musicians are lesbians.

Sheesh, I'm just kidding

Slackmaster 2000

[Alan]

Suggestion for new Forum Topic: GROUP THERAPY.

Good afternoon everyone, I’d like to introduce a new member to our group, His name is Alan.
Alan, would you like to take a seat, and tell us a little about yourself.
Remember Alan, we are all friends here.

“Nervous cough” Well I guess it all started when I was about 13, I used to spend hours in my bedroom on my own. First it was sketching, then painting, but when I started to write poems, that’s when it got real serious! Endless observations on a life I had not yet lived.
Then came my first big mistake, I started to listen to music, weird and intoxicating stuff by groups like Cream, Free, Led Zepp and the like. I guess I knew then I was hooked.
So came the obsession with guitars, amps, and any other piece of equipment that would help with my need for self-expression. I just never seemed to have enough, I couldn’t stop myself. First it was a WEM Copycat (For you younger people in the group, that’s like a digital delay that runs with tape and fossil fuel). Even when I got the one thing in the world I wanted more than anything else. (Les Paul) my obsession would turn to something else.
My sense of logic and reason went straight out the window.
The Band strategy discussion’s in the bar, used to go like this:
“Hey Alan I was talking to John today and he said he wants to be in the band”
“But he can’t play worth shit, and his singing is worse”
“Yeah but is parents are loaded and you wanna see the Marshall stack he’s just got”
“HE’S IN”
Blah…..blah …..blah…………..


TWO HOURS LATER:


So you see Doc if I’d have met the women I’m with now, twenty years ago. Things would have been so much easier.


“So things are much better for you now Alan ?”


SHIT NO ! if anything it’s worse. Now I earn good money, no mortgage the kids have left home, and five years ago I started to get into computers. Doc you should see what you can do now with a good PC its f*#%ing AWESOME!
Did I tell you about all the new gear I just bought……Blah…..blah …..blah.

“Oh my God, this is worse than I thought”


Catch my drift ?????
This is a great thread and line of discussion. Its just good to know I’m not alone.
Maybe we could have an “Excuse of the week” section, so that we could help each other out.
You know, this worked for me. Or, for Gods sake don’t try this.

Alan