Newbies - Recording Industry The Truth.

[manning1]

i read a lot of posts on here , and it never ceases to amaze me the amount of money people spend on recording equipment.
the same crazy questions day after day like is this convertor better than that or this mic better than that when the guy does not even have a basic understanding of the rudiments of audio engineering.
so heres some TRUTHS about the audio business.
1. no matter how much you invest 95 per cent of you will never see major radio play in a major demographic market unless you have something that is really superb or your mother owns the radio station.
2. major labels only care about sales. most people dont realise it but most submissions to labels never get heard.
3. there are millions of project studios so dont expect to make a living at this unless you have built a local or world rep.
and finally dont spend a lot of money on instant coffee quick solutions. the next plug in or mic or preamp or whatever is not going to get you there.

[Track Rat]

But what is the mic I can do my rhymes with under $25? And I want to sell my beats so who can I send 'em to?

[onlyfingers]

There are a lot of reasons for being involved in an activity besides making it big or making big money. And those that have motives other than fame and fortune can be quite motivated, motivated to spend on what is, eseentially, a hobby. People enjoy singing, people enjoy making music, people enjoy the teamwork of making music with a group, and people enjoy listening to music. But as soon as you have to market what you are doing, you need a demo to do it. My understading is that the need to market one's music is what brings a lot of people to this board. (I lurk around here because I am learning guitar, and I need to record practices so that I have something to follow.)

Even if we're not pros or on the path to becoming pros, there is nothing wrong with wanting the best. I read a post the other day where the poster advised a newbie to begin spending on home recording gear if his objective was to learn audio engineering. If his objective was to produce pro-quality demos, to plan on spending $20,000. If the objective was to *have* a pro quality demo, to find someone with the equipment and skills.

I guess a lot of people who lurk around here are not in the "audio business." After all, the site is called Home Recording.

[moskus]

Originally posted by manning1
so heres some TRUTHS about the audio business.

Yeah yeah, we know. But this is my hobby, and I therefore spend the money on it.

[manning1]

the cut off point imho is 2500 to 4000 dollars.
this will buy you very good quality sound these days.
the noise floor of todays sound cards is lower than when i was recording on 2 inch machines. whoever said 20,000 is wrong imho.
all i'm saying is if you want to engineer good songs its more than money. its learning professional audio engineering.
to do this one either needs to intern with a good studio under some engineers who know what they are doing or go to
engineering school to get the basics.
i only posted the topic because so many newbies i come across
think often wronly that throwing lots of money at their studio will solve all their needs or desires.

[wheelema]

I do not have any expectations of being able to make a living off of this, I'm just supporting the kids.

[TexRoadkill]

Originally posted by manning1
the cut off point imho is 2500 to 4000 dollars.
this will buy you very good quality sound these days.
the noise floor of todays sound cards is lower than when i was recording on 2 inch machines. whoever said 20,000 is wrong imho.

ROFL. Dude you can barely get started for $4k. The SNR on 2 inch Dolby SR blows away any sound card under a few grand.

I agree with many of your points and it's important that people have a realistic goal when putting together a studio. But if their goal is high quality (for whatever reason) then you are just helping to perpetuate the myth that a few grand and a whizz bang digital recorder can give you radio quality productions.

Personally I think anyone who thinks a <$20k studio will ever produce anything but song writer demos is kidding themselves. They would be better off spending a few bucks on a cheap porta studio and spending the big money on real studio time.

[tjohnston]

Originally posted by TexRoadkill
ROFL.But if their goal is high quality (for whatever reason) then you are just helping to perpetuate the myth that a few grand and a whizz bang digital recorder can give you radio quality productions.

Somebody finally said it!

[EddieRay]

Originally posted by moskus
Yeah yeah, we know. But this is my hobby, and I therefore spend the money on it.

Exactly. The artistic itch must be scratched.

Thanks anyway for the reality check manning1. I think the real trick is keeping the technical trappings of audio recording from killing the joy of making music.

[manning1]

texas i'm not saying use a cheap consumer sound card if you notice. ALSO ive used 2inch machines wITH dolby for more
years than i care to remember. AND been through all the headaches of maintenance and biasing and loosing the odd track in a critical session. all i'm trying to say is before you blow huge money are you blowing it because in reality your not willing to admit that you need to focus on learning the intricacies of engineering skills. once texas, if you remember gold was struck using 3 track machines by the true pioneers of the industry.
now an investment of way less than 20k imho gives one a DAW based studio with far more features than the pioneers EVER HAD.
all i'm saying, and ive been guilty of this in the past is one is tempted to spend more money on new equipment when often one should be concentrating on other areas like skills upgrading.

[A Reel Person]

So Fuckin' What? And, why's it so important to you to let the hot air out of anyone's baloon? No doubt, practically all Newbies have stars in their eyes, and not a clue about real recording. What's in it for you, to bash everyone over the head, & bring them around to your "reality"? Are you a "pro", or do you have some superior talent or insight to the "industry"? Posts like this make you seem like a real FUCK, right out of the box!

I say, let Newbies have their delusions. Most of them figure out the score, sooner or later.

PS: What you say is not "news",...

& Have a nice day!

[sweetnubs]

like dear sweetnubs always says: If you have several grand to spend on useless gear that you don't know how to use why in the hell don't you just spend it on a professional studio with a reputable engineer that has engineered hundreds of albums year after year? news flash: experience and technical knowledge is what matters. If you are at all hestitant or think you may not know what you are doing, then you don't know what you are doing.

[The Green Hornet]

Yo Manning:

Interesting post. But, you should realize that most people do not like to be told how to spend their $$$.

I just have a home studio but in it are some nice toys. My studio is what was supposed to be a second bedroom -- but, there isn't room for a pillow in there.

I guess I might say that a huge entanglement of wires is what prompted me to move from my apartment and get a home. More room to experiment and learn about recording. Besides, I like to support the economy.

And, the learning experience of rummaging through this site is awesome. So much talent hangs out here its like a free University.

So, thanks for your comments but if I want that Neuman 103, you can bet I'll buy it.


Green Hornet

[cellardweller]

Originally posted by manning1

all i'm saying is if you want to engineer good songs its more than money. its learning professional audio engineering.
to do this one either needs to intern with a good studio under some engineers who know what they are doing or go to
engineering school to get the basics.
.

The unanswered question then is, short of being an intern (not that I wouldn't love to, just that I can't) or going to school, or actually investing the years of experimentation/trial and error, is there any other way in which a newb could attain this knowledge, or a portion thereof?

[onlyfingers]

Originally posted by sweetnubs
news flash: experience and technical knowledge is what matters. If you are at all hestitant or think you may not know what you are doing, then you don't know what you are doing.

What a scary concept.

Buy the gear, use the gear, and you'll be smarter about the next gear you buy and use. In virtually any pursuit, the top-of-the-line pro stuff costs a lot. In some cases, that keeps newbies from even considering it. (Take guitar building, for instance. I don't do it, but to make your first guitar, you have to spend a small fortune on special equipment.) When it comes to learning, there is no substitute for hands-on. To suggest staying away from an activity because you haven't got experience or technical knowledge or you may not know what you are doing is to doom yourself to never knowing.

I haven't taken recording too far, and I sure haven't been spending even at the low end of what some hobbyists and semi-pros and pros are spending at. But with each limited expense, I have gotten advice (good advice, I think) from contributors on this board. So far, I haven't been mocked for having a low budget (though I was accused of having low standards), or for asking dumb questions.

If people are here and posting, especially in a newbie forum, it probably means they recognize they "don't know what they are doing," and want to change that state.

[sweetnubs]

I'm fine with being a hobbyist and wanting to learn more, etc. But if you are a musician and recording your band and are serious about making music your money is better spent at a REPUTABLE studio. Why spend years and thousands of dollars to butcher the music you've invested so much energy in creating?

[c7sus]

Actually, building -A- guitar really doesn't take a lot of specialized equipment.

A bending iron, a few chisels, drill bits, maybe a plane or two, couple dozen clamps, and sandpaper........ even so the bending iron is the most "exotic" piece of equipment. And it's just a piece of pipe with a lightbulb in it!

Building LOTS of guitars (and making $ at it) is a very different story!

The REAL truth about the recording industry is that it's not about talent or chops at all.

It's all about having a marketable image.

You can have all the talent, chops, world-class audio production there is........

But if you have a one-dimensional presence in front of a camera or audience you're never gonna get anywhere in the biz.

[manning1]

c7sus re : image. i think your right.
to reel person.....i'm not trying to deflate balloons. but what concerns me is ive seen some really nice good folks really burn themselves out even to the brink of bankruptcy by overextending themselves with too many loans etc. if its a hobby great.

[wheelema]

I agree that $4K will buy you a solid home studio. In support of this assertion this is what I could buy with $4K....

• 24 input digital mixer/control surface where 8 are balanced analog w/mic pres. Incl. multiple MIDI I/O, multiple S/PDIF I/O.
• 1 very good single channel mic pre w/compression
• Software based compression, EQ, deesser, pitch correction, multi-part and choral backing vocals, multi-band compression/limiting, and much more than mentioned herein
• Servicable monitors (YSM1p or BX8). Not ADAM or Dynaudio to be sure...
• Solid set of headphones
• One excellent dynamic (RE-20 or AT4050), one very good large condensor (MC319 or SP B1) microphones.
• 2.6 Intel P4 800mhz FSB computer w/1GB of RAM, 80GB of HDD, 17" monitor, wireless keyboard & mouse, CDRW, DVD.

In the interest of complete disclosure note that no O/S or sequencing software is included.

[c7sus]

MC319 and the SP B-1 aren't "very good" mics by any measurement other than cost/performance.

Even with that caveat I wouldn't say either mic is "very good."

[wheelema]

Well, the beauty of this stuff is that it's ALL subjective. Can't make everybody happy. Hell, I can't hardly make myself happy!

[ZOWIE!]

Originally posted by sweetnubs
If you have several grand to spend on useless gear that you don't know how to use why in the hell don't you just spend it on a professional studio with a reputable engineer that has engineered hundreds of albums year after year?

Because we suck.

[ZOWIE!]

Originally posted by wheelema
I agree that $4K will buy you a solid home studio. In support of this assertion this is what I could buy with $4K....

• 24 input digital mixer/control surface where 8 are balanced analog w/mic pres. Incl. multiple MIDI I/O, multiple S/PDIF I/O.
• 1 very good single channel mic pre w/compression
• Software based compression, EQ, deesser, pitch correction, multi-part and choral backing vocals, multi-band compression/limiting, and much more than mentioned herein
• Servicable monitors (YSM1p or BX8). Not ADAM or Dynaudio to be sure...
• Solid set of headphones
• One excellent dynamic (RE-20 or AT4050), one very good large condensor (MC319 or SP B1) microphones.
• 2.6 Intel P4 800mhz FSB computer w/1GB of RAM, 80GB of HDD, 17" monitor, wireless keyboard & mouse, CDRW, DVD.

In the interest of complete disclosure note that no O/S or sequencing software is included.

And many people, at least if they're not students, have some of that stuff to begin with. If you've already got the computer and decent monitoring ability, $4k can buy you some pretty nice sound capabilities if you keep the number of simultaneuous tracks down.

[TexRoadkill]

Originally posted by manning1
texas i'm not saying use a cheap consumer sound card if you notice. ALSO ive used 2inch machines wITH dolby for more
years than i care to remember. AND been through all the headaches of maintenance and biasing and loosing the odd track in a critical session. all i'm trying to say is before you blow huge money are you blowing it because in reality your not willing to admit that you need to focus on learning the intricacies of engineering skills. once texas, if you remember gold was struck using 3 track machines by the true pioneers of the industry.
now an investment of way less than 20k imho gives one a DAW based studio with far more features than the pioneers EVER HAD.
all i'm saying, and ive been guilty of this in the past is one is tempted to spend more money on new equipment when often one should be concentrating on other areas like skills upgrading.

First off. Only my mother calls me Texas. It's Tex.

Second. Your message is now getting confused. I would always agree that technique and experience are more important than the gear but you must have the right tools to do the job. If somebody wants to track an entire band at once, mix the project and expect 'pro' results then $4k isn't going to make that happen.

My guitars and amps cost more than that. When I am done with my modest project studio I'll be glad if my cableing comes in under $4k.

Sure you can put together a decent demo quality DAW for $4k but that's only half of the battle.

[The Green Hornet]

Yo Tex, et. al:]

When Elvis did, "Heartbreak Hotel," didn't his drummer play a cardboard box for the session?

Man, that must require a real good studio?

I keep reading that many "popular" groups are doing their tracks at home. AHA, must be the mixing that does it?

Just what is "professional" sound? If a million buyers like a non-professional sound, well, do they ask if it was made in a big studio? Naw. But, I admit, a big studio will make good stuff, because it costs!

Bottom line -- are we having fun? You bet your tookis.

Green Hornet