what is the best sounding unit for recording distorted guitars direct?

[maskedman72]

i would love to be able to record my guitars direct with an emulator but i have never heard one that sounds good at all. can someone point me to some units that will do this? are there units out there that sound good enough to fool the ear into thinking it is an all out full stack being miked?
the sound i am looking for is that slayer,hatebreed,pantera,meshuggah type of sound.

maybe i am thinking of the line 6 pod(correct me if i am wrong)?

[chessrock]

http://www.mesaboogie.com/Product_In...ctoPreAmp.html

[AcidRain]

I'd go for the POD. The recto preamp is nice, but much more expensive and not as versatile. Not only that, but Line 6 has spent quite a bit of time and money on researching exactly what you're looking for, so...

try 'em both out, see what you like.

[lost studios]

that unit posted by chessrock is basically a given... But if it's out of your price range, the pod will work nicely. Digitech RP-2000, and the GNX line also can give you good results.

The real key to fooling people with "realistic" guitar distortion is to not use too much gain. I hear people constantly saying how much their guitar modelling processor sucks and that they can't get any realistic sounds out of it; however, they just don't know how to properly set it up. When you listen to an album that has a really heavy sound, most of the time your being fooled as to how much gain or "distortion" is on the guitars. I'm pretty sure that if someone was to solo one channel on the board that a guitar is one, you'd shit your knickers when you realized how little gain and how thin that sucker sounded by itself. Achieving a big heavy guitar sound has way more to do with spatial placement, playing the same part more than once (with possible a different string inversion), compression, and leaving lots of space for the bass and drums.

To reiterate.. When using a direct processor for guitar sounds, use about 1/3 of the gain than what you think the guitar needs hearing it by yourself... (for example: a buddy of mine has a RP-2000 and said it was impossible to get a realistic guitar sound out of it. The gain setting went from 1-99... he had it on 92 and it sounded way too distorted and unrealistic. All I did is spin that bad boy down to about 35 and some realism set in for sure. Just be sure that you at least set the gain low enough that if you pick the strings lightly, you will get somewhat of a clean tone and when you really dig in the heavy gain thing happens.... otherwise, you'll end up with guitars with so much gain that they sound completely unrealistic and rediculous.

good luck
ls

[maskedman72]

thanks for the info!! i like the boogie unit ,espically cause it has tubes! ill have to check out that pod pro to see if it sounds as good as they say. the boogie is too much $$$$.
can the pod pro be a pre amp in a power amp-stack setup or is it made just for direct recording?

[lost studios]

You could definately feed a power amp stack the line level signal off the POD.

[gaylord]

I tried the Boogie Pre out and didn't like it - the distortion was crackly and fuzzy - not tight and punchy. I use a POD XT which is OK - it's got a few useable sounds. I actually like the sound of my Flextone II (Line 6) direct in better for distortion. The Rectifier model isn't too bad.

However - in my endless search for good direct guitar tone - I gave up and ordered a Mesa Boogie Single Rectifier Head and 2x12 cab. I am building an iso box for the cab for semi silent recording (I don't know if it'll work or not).

Basically at this point in time there's nothing that sounds great for direct recording. You'll get some useable tones - but mostly they'll fall short.

Be sure and TRY OUT the Mesa Boogie Preamp BEFORE you purchase! Spend a good couple hours with it at the store going direct into a recording app or plug it into some powered monitors. I was not impressed. But you may like it. It's expensive too.

[maskedman72]

yes, in my experience with direct gtrz they all fall far short. to me they all sound fuzzy and fake. someday they will have it down to the point where you cant tell,but not today.

[chessrock]

You could get a good amp head, and run directly from it's speaker output in to a Palmer Speaker Simulator with dummy load.

The most authentic means of direct guitar recording. Better than mic'ing in some cases.

[maskedman72]

that sounds interesting. do you have a link?

[theshaggyfreak]

So far I've been really happy with the J-station, and unlike the POD ( I believe) you get s/pdif out.

[gaylord]

http://www.harmony-central.com/Effec...ulator-01.html

[gaylord]

http://www.palmerdirect.com/pga04f.htm

[chessrock]

You can order them from Fletcher.

http://www.mercenary.com/pga04addimop.html

It's cheaper than going out and buying like 5 different combo amps. And there's no amp modeling going on. It's the real sound of your amp. The only thing emulated is the mic'ing of the speaker, which from what I gather they were able to pull off.

I've heard the dude who engineers/produces Queens of the StoneAge uses it a lot. I heard about it after reading an interview with him. Apparently David Gilmour and Geddy Lee have been known to use one from time-to-time also.

[gaylord]

I may get one of those for my Rectoverb head (which I don't have yet). Probably easier than buidling an iso box for my cab, you think?

[pennylink]

If you don't or can't use a good tube amp, I would recommend the Johnson J-Station. It's every bit as good (or bad, depending on how you want to look at it) as the POD.

It has a great Rectifier preset right out of the box, and you can tweak to your heart's content with the included software. It has bass presets as well, a real plus. A ton of built-in effects, such as reverb, delay, gate, chorus, compression, etc. so you can save on your computer's CPU. The Fender clean sounds IMO are superior to POD. It does have trouble with crunch sounds, but so does every other amp simulator! And yes, it has SPDIF out.

For under $100 it's got to be the biggest bang-for-the-buck guitarist/bassist recording tool you can get.

[maskedman72]

thanks for telling me about the palmer unit chessrock! that sounds more-like what i have been looking for. i would love to get ahold of one and try it out. i will have to put it on my list. with that unit would i be able to run into it and a 4x12 cab at the same time? that would give me the option if micking the cab and using the direct signal and blending the 2. also does it have 2 channels for stereo?

[VesuviusJay]

I cannot stress this enough. I am in an extreme metal band and I am a self taught hobby engineer recording us. I tried everything I could find for 2 years trying to get huge guitar tone. Bottom line I came to was simple: Use a 4X12 Guitar combo with closed back cabinet, and use an exact pair of recording mics. There is not a direct box out there so far that will come close to the hugeness I capture now! Study some more on this BBS and you will see many of the oldschoolers will agree with me.

[gaylord]

Originally posted by VesuviusJay
I cannot stress this enough. I am in an extreme metal band and I am a self taught hobby engineer recording us. I tried everything I could find for 2 years trying to get huge guitar tone. Bottom line I came to was simple: Use a 4X12 Guitar combo with closed back cabinet, and use an exact pair of recording mics. There is not a direct box out there so far that will come close to the hugeness I capture now! Study some more on this BBS and you will see many of the oldschoolers will agree with me.

Do you record each mic to a different track or blend them as one track?

[VesuviusJay]

I blend the stereo inputs to mono output. But I record 2 tracks of rythm and take the blended mono tracks and pan them hard left and right.

[chessrock]

Originally posted by maskedman72
thanks for telling me about the palmer unit chessrock! that sounds more-like what i have been looking for. i would love to get ahold of one and try it out. i will have to put it on my list. with that unit would i be able to run into it and a 4x12 cab at the same time? that would give me the option if micking the cab and using the direct signal and blending the 2. also does it have 2 channels for stereo?

I believe it has a "through" option that allows you to split the signal like you're saying.

The one I'm familiar with didn't have two channels for stereo if I remember correctly. The one Fletcher carries is a newer version, though, so that one might be different. Who knows?

Luckily for me, noise and isolation aren't really issues, but I remember well the day of living in small studio apartments . . . and I wish I would have known about these back then.

[gaylord]

Originally posted by VesuviusJay
I blend the stereo inputs to mono output. But I record 2 tracks of rythm and take the blended mono tracks and pan them hard left and right.

I'll have to try that when my Rectoverb head arrives. I just picked up the 2x12 recto cab - head should be here today.

Would using both a 57 and a beta 58 give a nice blend do you think? Or are beta 58's no good for guitar amps?

[VesuviusJay]

Originally posted by gaylord
I'll have to try that when my Rectoverb head arrives. I just picked up the 2x12 recto cab - head should be here today.

Would using both a 57 and a beta 58 give a nice blend do you think? Or are beta 58's no good for guitar amps?

Well if I am not mistaken the only difference between the 57 and 58 is the spherical head on the 58 and extra "puff" padding for vocals. This extra fluff in the head actually hinders the instrument signal which is why the 57 is setup the way it is. If possible use beta sm57a's. They are pristine sounding. Also I got the best results using a matching stereo pair of mic's (ie. 2 mics exactly the same). It is easier to solve phase problems with matching mic's.

Also, this is the best thread I have found on mic'ing guitar cabinets. The post by Aaron Carey is brilliant.

http://homerecording.com/bbs/showthr...threadid=64239