recording a bass drum

[transmission]

hey, i am trying to record bass drum and i have an AKGd112 and a MACKIE 1942-vlz pro mixing board.

when i try to get a good sound for some reason it sounds hirrible... does anyone have any techniques on recording bass drum? if you could give me some ideas that'd be awsome! thanks!

[Gidge]

first, get the kick sounding good to your ears in the room...use tuning, new heads, damping, etc to accomplish this......

whether youll mic the inside or the outside will really depend on the kick sound you are after.....

[transmission]

thanks. it sounds good. but when i go to mic it.. it doesnt really sound good

[shackrock]

with that pre and that mic alone, you can make it sound awesome, no doubt.

The key is placement...and if it sounds like it's clipping (but it's not), try putting a -20db mic pad in the chain...i had that problem.

[TexRoadkill]

What mic positions have you tried and how does it sound bad? too boomy? not enough attack? not enough low end?

[Bulls Hit]

Try aiming the mic at the edge of the shell

[transmission]

sorry i dont know what "-20db mic pad in the chain" means.. if you could explain a little more that would be great.

its a tama set, and i took the outside head off to put a mic in it. i put it in the center of it about 5 inches from the front head facing at the head. i actually think that i have the problem where it sounds like its clipping but its not at all... its actually very quiet.

and i will try aiming it away from the front head.

if you can tell me waht you mean with the -20db mic pad in the chain that would be great.

if you have aol or aim we can talk about it on there if youd rather that...

my sn is "xmikeeleyx"

thanks again!

[Neil Ogilvie]

I find that to get the exact Kick drum sound I want I EQ a lot. Usually a big boost at about 4000 and cut at about 500, then boost again at about 100. But, thats for my drum sound. Other than that, its all about placement.

A pad, or as was mentioned a '20 db pad' is just a little capsule that plugs into the mic lead that cuts the signal by 20 db. Pretty straightforward.

[TexRoadkill]

Many preamps also have a Pad switch. One thing is to make sure you switch the Phase on the kick mic. Many preamps also have a switch for that or you can make a special cable to do it. The kick mic will be out of phase in relation to the overheads and until you fix that it will be hard to get a decent sound.

[Bulls Hit]

Originally posted by TexRoadkill
The kick mic will be out of phase in relation to the overheads and until you fix that it will be hard to get a decent sound.

This is something I've always struggled to understand. Are you saying the kick mic is always out of phase with the overheads?

I thought it depended on the distance between the mics, and as you adjust the distance, the mics move into and out of phase with each other

[TexRoadkill]

Originally posted by Bulls Hit
This is something I've always struggled to understand. Are you saying the kick mic is always out of phase with the overheads?

I thought it depended on the distance between the mics, and as you adjust the distance, the mics move into and out of phase with each other

It does depend on distance but one of the reasons that there is an obvious phase reversal is that when you strike the kick drum the head moves towards the kick mic and away from the OH's. The same applies to micing any drum from the back side (or even guitar amps). Some guys like to keep the normal phase on the kick and invert the OH's and other top side mics.

If you're overheads are 10' up in the air maybe it's not such a big issue but with most home setups you are usually to close to get enough space.

I'm not sure if the reason I stated (relation to the drum skin) is actually the real reason for inverting the phase but it is the one most quoted and for whatever reason inverting the kick mic does help.

[transmission]

okay

thanks!

can someone please send me a link of a preamp that they think i should get that would be good for bass drum that has the switch for -20db so i can see what your talking about? i have a condensor mic taht has the switch and im assuming thats what your talking about.. ive just never seen it on any ohter mics.

also whats with the inverting thing? ive heard about it from a few people. is that an option on my mixing board i can turn on? or what would i have to buy?

thanks again. any information/links to some equipment would be appreciated.

[Gidge]

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/cont...=&O=&sku=68600

[fazil]

check your cables, do you have phantom power for condeser mics o, ? I once had a bad snake wich blew my kick/tom/bass/guitar/everytinhg sound cause of bad cables. Try to turn of you phantom (if it's on) and check again. I could describe my previous kick sound as powerfull slapping my forehead with a flat hand.
-grtz

[transmission]

yeah the phantom power is on. and it sorta sounds like im tapping on the micraphone when we recrord the bass drum. i dunno.

thanks.

[fazil]

you should try to disconnect any other cable on the mic inputs, and then hear the kick alone ... and if it still sucks, you might wanna check your mic on bass guitar for example

-greetz

[transmission]

okay i found the problem.. i need a compressor.

thanks

[spazex]

I've found are Alesis 3630A and Behringer to be good compressors.

[maskedman72]

the alesis 3630 is in my opinion and many others around here one of the worst compressors made. but if your kick drum sounds bad,adding a compressor will not make it good. it may even make it worse. your d112 does not require phantom power so you can switch that off. the d112 is a dynamic mic.
you mentioned that it sounds like it is overloading. try backing off of the gain knob on your mackie and setting the fader at unity gain. play with those until your gain staging is correct.
hope that helps.

[spazex]

Oops my bad, perhaps that's my problem. I'm using a screwed up compressor. I don't use it much. What do you suggest are good compressors?

How do you like Shure beta 52 and a 58 mic?

[maskedman72]

a compressor that is far better for the price is the rnc and the beta and 58 are a matter of taste and application.

[pitchfork]

hey
i have used a very similar set-up as you, except now i have a mic preamp (tubessence) and i use an RNC compressor. this compressor is widely considered to be the best in its price range ($175) and comparable to $1000 units. everybody that uses them swear by em.

the compressor won't buy you much with the specifics of the bass drum sound really...you definitely don't want to use it like that as a general rule...though i do use a compressor as an effect sometimes. compression on drums is used to control the overall amplitude dynamics, and should be fairly transparent. if it makes a huge impact in the sound of individual drums, you are using as it as a substitute for good placement/EQing

from the sounds of it, your main problem is placement and EQing. for one, it sounds like you may have the mic too close to the front head. back off! i've got some of my best bass drum sounds by miking the bass drum 12" or more away from the drum. give it some air. on your board, crank up the bass EQ to about 3oclock, and have the mid and highs a little lower. play with the mids a lot, and keep the bass up. you want the kick to have definition, but you don't want it to sound like a paper bag. also, reverb can definitely thicken it up, and when mixed with music, it is surprising how much reverb goes relatively unnoticed (other than it sounds fuller). also, the overheads can capture highs of the kick better sometimes, and also can round out the bass sound. don't be afraid to turn up the bass on the overheads.

anyway, drums are a bitch to record, so don't feel bad. bass drum is particularly tricky i think.

[transmission]

thank you pitchfork so much. you seem to know quite a bit and seem to have a close set up to mine .. if you could.. IM me sometime if you get the chance. thanks!!

screen name : xmikeeleyx

[transmission]

also is there a good compressor (it can be a little more expensive) but goes onto a rack? that would be awsome.

is the rnc thing a brand? or a model of a brand? or what?

[pitchfork]

you're welcome for the info.

the rnc compressor is a model made by FMR audio. click on the link in my last post and read about it. they make different stuff.

it's a half rack unit so you can put it in your rack, but you would need something to hold it in there, like a half rack mounting unit.

i just have mine sitting on top of my rack along with my external converter and some other crap.