Sonar 3 vs. Reason 2.5 ???

[powerule]

Iam a FL4 Studio ( dont laugh please) user. I like it because of the VST plugins. But now iam ready for something more professional. I have the money to spend for a nice software. Iam leaning to either Sonar 3.0 or Reason 2.5. What is the superior program, Iam into making beats / Production. I want to hear from both users. This is a big investment for me, I dont have money to waste. Thank you.




powerule.

[ds21]

there's hardly anything to compare between Sonar and Reason, two totally different programs, for two totally different things, Sonar by it's self will not make sound(multitrack audio/midi), which on the other hand, Sound synth, is what Reason and Project5 where mainly ment to do (but can do more), the idea thing would be to get both Sonar and Reason, or Sonar and Project5, because you can use Reason and Project5 inside of Sonar.

[James Argo]

Sure, what ds21 said...

I even heard you can run FL4 within SONAR 3. But I'm not quite sure...

[powerule]

you guys are confusing me. Sonar 3.0 is called producer's edition. meaning its made to produce. reason is also a production tool. hence BOTH you are able to makes beats with....
so why would one NOT be able to compare them???? Iam looking at it in the TO MAkE BEATS point of view.

I know reason / cooledit is a good combo as well as fl4 / cep.

you guys are saying this like sonar is only for recording...??

SONAR 3.0 Producer's edition.

[James Argo]

Originally posted by powerule
you guys are confusing me. Sonar 3.0 is called producer's edition. meaning its made to produce. reason is also a production tool. hence BOTH you are able to makes beats with....
so why would one NOT be able to compare them???? Iam looking at it in the TO MAkE BEATS point of view...

Yes, but the way they make beats is way different. SONAR doesn't make any grove unless you record/sequence midi notes or use something like Slicy Drums DXi to generate beats. It's great sequencing and multi tracking programs. It deppends on how would you make the groove/beats. If you're into MIDI and detail sequencing, then SONAR is the way to go. If you are kind of "pick and go", then Reason is for you.

Kinda like asking which one is better, Corel Draw or Photoshop if you know the difference between?

Originally posted by powerule
I know reason / cooledit is a good combo as well as fl4 / cep.

you guys are saying this like sonar is only for recording...??

SONAR 3.0 Producer's edition.

Not only, but recording and multitracking have been it's main feature. MIDI and audio. I'm not using Reason, so I'm not sure about it in detail, but certainly, SONAR doesn't work like FL nor Reason.

Here's some example to figure... You make the beats in FL or Reason, import it to SONAR, add audio and/or other MIDI tracks, and mix in SONAR, export the result as pre-mastered wave, then master it with Wavelab.

Can you use FL only to make music? Sure you do... It's good for making da beats.
Can you use SONAR only to make music? Sure you do... It's good for MIDI and audio multitracking, and it's DXis worth as MIDI sound generator.
Can you use Wavelab only to make music? Sure you do... It's a good wave editor and mastering tools.

As you see, each programs has it's own main features and special function. Pros and Cons. It's how you work to make music that determines which is better for you. If you like to see from "make some instant beats" point of view, then get Reason, FL, or Project5. When you finish making the beats, and want to do more (add MIDI and/or audio tracks, mix, etc), then you're gonna need SONAR. I hope that clears things a bit for you.


Jaymz

[ds21]

Also, look beyond the "Production tool" label. Anything you use to make music or whatever is a "Productions tool", I consider my pencil & paper "production tools", If you go to their web sites, Project5 (made by cakewalk by the way) and Reason, You'll see where you can listen to some sounds made by them, going to the Sonar site you won't find any, so if your going to rely only on one program running on you computer, it's going to be Project5 or Reason (or others).

[Chris Shaeffer]

One principle difference between Sonar and Reason is that Reason doesn't record audio at all.

Sonar is designed to record and mix audio and MIDI. Reason is designed for pattern sequencing, sample playback, and synth production. Worlds apart.

Sonar, to my knowledge, comes with a limited variety of sounds. Its MIDI recording and editing features will do the trick as long as you have other sound modules. Reason, on the other hand, IS a software synth and sampler rack and is capable of producing electronic music on its own- though a MIDI controller is a major help.

That's the extent of my knowledge as far as your question goes. I don't make beats so I'm not sure which one will work the best for you.

I think both programs have Demo versions- I know Reason does. Give em a try.

Take care,
Chris

[moskus]

Originally posted by ds21
if your going to rely only on one program running on you computer, it's going to be Project5 or Reason (or others).

No, it's going to be Sonar 3 Pro. Just because you can record with it, use virtual instruments with it, and so on. You can even use Project5 or Reason directly in Sonar via ReWire if you want (and you want to).

The "Pro" in Sonar 3 Pro is Producer not production, it's Producer Edition. To produce music and to make music is two different things...

[ds21]

Originally posted by moskus
No, it's going to be Sonar 3 Pro. Just because you can record with it, use virtual instruments with it, and so on. You can even use Project5 or Reason directly in Sonar via ReWire if you want (and you want to).

The "Pro" in Sonar 3 Pro is Producer not production, it's Producer Edition. To produce music and to make music is two different things...

I'm sorry, I should have said, the only program on your computer, and make "beats with" , I mean you can with Sonar, but it would be very limited, with what it comes with (I assuming he's not talking about audio recording beats), Like I said, it would be best to be a combination though.

[James Argo]

Thanks for emailing me, Richard, now please check yours. But the idea is the same. If you know combo FL4/CEP (they're combined because they are different, right? ), then you may get the idea of Reason/SONAR somehow.


Jaymz

[spankenstein]

I use FL Studio 4 and SONAR 3. I tried the demo of Reason as well but since I don't do any midi stuff it didn't do anything from me.

I use FL for making beats. I may do a whole song then export a wav file or make some different parts and do all the editing together in SONAR.

For what you are wanting SONAR may be overkill though. The biggest advantage to it is marrying midi with live audio. 95% of the stuff that I do is bands and live instruments.

[thunderkyss]

I've got an older version of reason on my computer along with Sonar3. I decided to upgrade from Sonar2.2, and opted not to upgrade reason, because I can do everything with the softsynths included with S3. The main thing I was using Reason for was the sampler, and now Vsampler is working out so well, I can't remember the last time I opened it.
With the DR008(from S2) I can make all the beats I want. I also have lounge lizard, and FM7 doing there thing. I use it all pretty much the same way I'd use reason. Set up a loop range, 2 bars, 4 bars, 8 bars, whatever. work on the different parts. Now reason did this a little better, in that I could switch track, and whichever track I went to was now armed and ready for recording. If I didn't want to record, and just wanted to audition an idea or two, I simply deactivate record mode, practice and when I am ready to record, just hit record. Playback never stops, and I stay in the groove.
After I lay down the bedwork, I grab my bass/ guitar, jam over it. If I am feeling brave(drunk or whatever) I lay down a vocal.
I have no use for reason anymore.

[MMcMad]

You should ask youself the following questions:

Q - Do I want an all-in-one solution for producing music?

A - Reason, without a doubt. It provides you with an extensive array of equipment and effects that you can mix and match to make your music. This includes 2 samplers, a drum machine, a matrix sequencer and 2 synths aswell as the Dr. Rex player. It comes with some exceptionally good effects units. You can create multiple instances of each, CPU limits withstanding. It has a fairly basic sequencer which is very good for mapping patterns from the instruments or for drawing tracks on to directly. (But it is not as comprehensive in the sequencer department as Sonar, obviously)


Q - Do I need to use VSTi's and DXi's?

A - Sonar. Reason does not support any external plugins. If you already own plugins you will not be able to use them.


Q - Do I need to record Audio?

A - Sonar, probably. There is no audio recording capabilities in Reason. However, if you already have spoftware that allows you to record audio you can import the audio files into one of Reasons samplers and use it from there. So you do not have to discount Reason altogether.


Q - Do I mainly produce one specific type of music?

A - This is not so important as you can pretty much produce any kind of music in either. However, certain restrictions within Reason will make this much more difficult than with Sonar. For example, if you produce Drum & Base Reason is great for creating and manipulating drum loops. However D&B generally runs beats up to 180 BPM + while playing other instruments/synths at 100 - 120 BPM. It is very difficult to achieve this split timing in Reason effectively. Yet for most other dance/electronic type music Reason is a breeze to dive in and produce convincing tracks immediatley.


Q - Where do I want to take my music into the future?

A - This is probably the key question. I use both Sonar and Reason and could not do without either. I produce all my beats exclusively in Reason because it is the most flexible yet easiest environment to throw loops and sequences together in. With the array of effects and instruments that can all be interlinked the possibilities are endless. However, over time I have collected various free and purchased DXi's, and like to sample audio directly. Therefore, Sonar provides the perfect stable and flexible environemnt to cater for all my specific needs.

If you purchase one now, use it, love it and in a small amount of time you may find your financial resources have rebuilt enough to allow you to purchase the other any way. In this case, accepting all I have said above, I would purchase Reason first as it is an all-in-one solution...and a mighty fine one at that.

Finally try the demos. (Although I think only Sonar 2.2 is currently available but at least it will give you a pretty good idea what it is capable of).

[tombuur]

I have played with FL, and if you are into Techno and that sort of thing, Sonar is not the first choice.

Sonor is for midi, audio recording and (I think folks around here forgot) acidized loops. Sonar is my choice because:

1. I can start out with a midi song, downloaded or made with Band in a Box or similar (even my autoplaying keyboard).

2. I can add drum loops to get more realistic drums. I can also add my own recorded bass loops (because I am not so good at playing bass, so I do 10 verses and pick the best).

3. I can finally record guitar and vocals.

So that is fairly traditional music. And, of course, you can record a whole band on 32 tracks or more, if you wish. The above 3 points are what made me choose Sonar, plus I find it easier to use than the competition.

[wrenhunter]

This is a very interesting thread, because it really illustrates different ways of making music.

I am in the same traditional camp as most posters above. I play mostly rock, and so making music for me largely means recording a guitar or keyboard. And producing music means applying effects, mixing down, etc. So for both of these tasks, Sonar rules.

But for gents like powerule, music is made via soft synths and loops, and producing means arranging tracks and finalizing everything into a coherent song. For these tasks, Reason rules (so I hear).

I use FL 4 and Sonar 2.2XL (3 is coming ), with FL as standalone and as a DXi in Sonar. Works swell both ways, though I've only messed with it some.

I guess MMcMad asked the best q: where do you want to go? If you are looking just to step up from FL and stick exclusively with beats and d&b and get more "pro", go with Reason. 2.5 looks pretty hot.

But if you plan (or hope) to get involved with mixing beats with guitar, live instruments, plugins, and MIDI, get Sonar.

Good luck,

wren

P.S. My fave quote in this thread: "I have no use for reason anymore."