reverb problem

dobro · #1 10-25-2003

I've got an electric guitar track that I can't put any reverb on because the tail sounds ugly. I've tried different settings, and the only effect that putting less reverb has on the the sound is that the tail is less ugly. When I play the track dry, it's fine.

WTF?

I'm using the reverb in Cool Edit/Adobe Audition 2.1, which is a good-enough reverb. Until now, anyway...

sonicpaint · #2 10-25-2003

Tail is ugly how? Is it being cut off? Is the reverb being gated? Sorry but I think we need a bit more info as to what you mean. How is it ugly?

later
sonicpaint

SLuiCe · #3 10-26-2003

Paul, can you email me a clip? I may be able to help if I can hear it. Or even post it here if etiquette allows.

Tom

dobro · #4 10-27-2003

Does etiquette allow?

http://www.nowhereradio.com/artists/...d=1075&alid=-1

'reverb tail'

The snippet's got a portion of the dry track, and then that's followed by the wet bit.

TexRoadkill · #5 10-28-2003

Have you tried some other reverb settings? With Diffusion and Decay times you should be able to get any type of tail you want.

SLuiCe · #6 10-28-2003

I'm hearing a strange rattling/vibrating noise on the second one. And it's slightly delayed after the attack of the string, where a reverb tail should begin if it had a small pre-delay set. Is this noise what you mean by ugly tail?

sonicpaint · #7 10-28-2003

I checked out the file and didn't hear any reverb at all on the file anywhere. Is the file the right one? Maybe I'm missed something when I downloaded it. Hmmmmm...anyone else hear the file?

sonicpaint

dobro · #8 10-28-2003

The first 12 notes are un-effected; there are 12 more notes after that, identical to the first 12, with the crappy reverb on them.

Blue Bear Sound · #9 10-29-2003

That's a very metallic-sounding reverb patch... what 'verb unit is it? Reminds me of the early ART reverb units from the 80's....

SLuiCe · #10 10-29-2003

There is definitely a difference between the two sets of notes, but I'm not even sure I'm hearing a reverb.

Bruce's "metallic" sort of describes it, but I don't really hear reverb. To me it sounds like you're playing the notes and the mic is picking up something in the room vibrating. Strange...

Great song though. I'd bring the vocals up 1.3 dB and get a new snare sound.

groucho · #11 10-29-2003

I dunno if this helps you Paul, but I spent several months trying to coax usable reverb sounds out of the Cool Edit verb before finally giving up. It's not that it's impossible - it's just that it's so much easier with other plug-ins.

Chris

The Seifer · #12 10-29-2003

S I R

dobro · #13 10-30-2003

"S I R"

Yeah, very transparent. Trouble is, I have no idea what you're talking about. No wonder either, sir.

groucho - so, did you move over to waves, then?

TexRoadkill · #14 10-30-2003

I really like the acoustic room simulation stuff in CEP but I can't remember what they called it. It was great for realistic room reverbs but not so great for musical spring/plate type reverbs. Their regular reverbs did suck as do most generic DAW reverbs.

groucho · #15 10-30-2003

My current reverb arsenal is pretty much pared down to the Waves RenVerb, the Timeworks 4080L, and my new favorite: the Steinberg Natural Verb, which I've been using mainly for vocals.

The thing I love about the Steinberg one is that it's the only software verb I've found that seems not to "smear" the original signal. The signal stays clear and crisp within the verb - even when using a lot of it.

I love this because it saves having to do the tedious "make a wet copy AND a dry copy" thing.

I use SIR occasionally, but their interface is kinda clunky - although it sounds pretty good when you get some good impulses in there. There's a batch of Lexicon stuff at noisevault that sounds nice. I'm also not crazy about always having to compensate for SIR's latency.

Chris

Blue Bear Sound · #16 10-30-2003

Quote:

Originally posted by TexRoadkill
...regular reverbs did suck as do most generic DAW reverbs.

I couldn't agree more -- the ones supplied with Cubase (both VST and SX) are just awful...!

dobro · #17 10-30-2003

If it wasn't for the utility of the posts in this thread, I'd dismiss it all as elitist bullshit.

TexRoadkill · #18 10-30-2003

Quote:

Originally posted by dobro
If it wasn't for the utility of the posts in this thread, I'd dismiss it all as elitist bullshit.

huh? I don't see any elitism going on here.

You posted that the reverb in CEP sounded like crap and most people seem to agree. The truth is that most reverbs that come bundled with DAW's really suck. I couldn't believe how bad the reverbs in Logic were. They were completely unusable for anything other than a slight thickening tool. If you actually let the reverb sustain long enough to hear it it sounded completely artificial. I'd rather use a Microverb.

The reverbs in a $200 TC M300 blow away most plugin reverbs. I have not played around with the more expensive plugins because I just can't see paying that much for something you can't really resell.

dobro · #19 10-30-2003

'elitism' is a joke

I actually found the thread useful. Until now, I'd found Cool's reverbs useful. But recently, I've been having problems with selected tracks. Hence, this thread.

However, based on my experience, I'd say Cool's reverb works about 97% of the time.

You know, when I posted this thread, I was hoping for a response along the lines of: "Hoo! Dobro! That problem you've got is a standard problem. Not only that, but the fix is like this..."

But the very fact that nobody recognized my problem as I've described suggests to me that software reverbs aren't all that bad, otherwise loads of people would've said something like: "Well, dobro, if you gonna use shit, you got to expect a bad smell on your mixes."

Blue Bear Sound · #20 10-30-2003

Quote:

Originally posted by dobro
But the very fact that nobody recognized my problem as I've described suggests to me that software reverbs aren't all that bad, otherwise loads of people would've said something like: "Well, dobro, if you gonna use shit, you got to expect a bad smell on your mixes."

Paul - re-read my post... I said exactly that, just more diplomatically!

dobro · #21 10-30-2003

'just awful'?

Well, most of the time Cool isn't just awful. Most of the time it's okay. But not on this track, it isn't. No sirree.

I don't pirate, so if I decide to go for a better solution, it gets expensive. Damn. How important is this?

Important to me.

Sigh.

kylen · #22 10-30-2003

dobro - you've got Cool Edit Pro, right ?

There's a convolution reverb in there that I haven't used. But I have used SIR with some Lexicon91 impulses (noisevault.com) and that thing is very cool. It's VST so for the price of a VST adapter you get SIR (free) and impulses (free) that sound better than most plugins. I haven't heard Waves stuff so I don't know about it.

I didn't listen to you clip yet but I'd be surprised if SIR didn't straighten it out unless there's a piece of noise, distortion or some wierd phasing happening on the end there. If the guitar was played thru a processor with 'downward expansion' type NR then things might sound funny too - I'll give a listen tonight if I get out of night school early enough.

kylen

Blue Bear Sound · #23 10-30-2003

Quote:

Originally posted by dobro
'just awful'?

Well, most of the time Cool isn't just awful. Most of the time it's okay. But not on this track, it isn't. No sirree.

I don't pirate, so if I decide to go for a better solution, it gets expensive. Damn. How important is this?

Important to me.

Sigh.

Not that post, the previous one....

Quote:

Originally posted by Blue Bear Sound
That's a very metallic-sounding reverb patch... what 'verb unit is it? Reminds me of the early ART reverb units from the 80's....

dobro · #24 10-30-2003

dobro · #25 10-30-2003

By the way, thanks for the ideas about better verbs - Seifer (I understand now), groucho - I'll look into it.

You know, I realize that my recording and mixing knowledge aren't getting anywhere near the best sound that my gear is capable of, but still and all, I was listening to music in a friend's car last night and then in the bar, and what impressed me about those commercial mixes was the *clarity* compared to my stuff - every element of the mix clearly audible and sitting pretty in the mix. I know it's an old debate that's been kicked around here dozens of times - how much a good sound comes down to good gear and how much it comes down to studio knowhow - but I bet I could get a better sound with some better gear right now.

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