How to write? Part II: LYRICS

[AJ_Cantos]

Hey! People,
What are the ways you usually perform in order to get good lyrics?

[trogdor]

Posting this ONCE might be a better way to get people to pay attention to it, contrary to how it might seem...

I think you need to be a little bit more specific with your question...

[AJ_Cantos]

Sorry about the triplicate, I fixed it. It was a fucking web problem. Now it's ok. Sorry again.

I mean...
which way to follow in writing lyrics art?

Do you first get an idea and start writing loads of sentences or sub-ideas around the main theme?

Do you write a complete story (without rhymes) and then try to fill the melody with it?

What's the way you think the rhymes? Do you look for a perfect rhyme? Is it not the most important but the correct word used?

Do you take care about what kind of vowels to use in high or sustained notes?

Let's discuss about it!

[philboyd studge]

Originally posted by AJ_Cantos
Sorry about the triplicate, I fixed it. It was a fucking web problem. Now it's ok. Sorry again.

I mean...
which way to follow in writing lyrics art?

Do you first get an idea and start writing loads of sentences or sub-ideas around the main theme?

Do you write a complete story (without rhymes) and then try to fill the melody with it?

What's the way you think the rhymes? Do you look for a perfect rhyme? Is it not the most important but the correct word used?

Do you take care about what kind of vowels to use in high or sustained notes?

Let's discuss about it!

For me, I want to know what I'm going to say first, well actually I want a hook first. Then a rough outline of verses as they relate to the chorus, then a first and last verse usually rhyming backwards so that the best line is the line that follows.

[ChristopherM]

It's never the same way twice. Sometimes they flow...sometimes I struggle for months. Sometimes I write a short story and "morph" it into a song. Sometimes I just throw out random ideas. Sometimes I start with an exact idea of what I want...

[Beltrom]

One method I use is to collect random sentences that somehow "get to me". When I sit down to write sometimes these make it into the songs all by themselves. Sometimes stuff that I didn't know whas related turns out to fit together beautifully.

When I feel the need to force a lyric (maybe because the music's all done and waiting) I sometimes write MY view on someone elses lyric. Not necessarily opposing it or debating it, just saying how I see it. Somehow it seems the inspiration rubs off without falling into copying.

[Aaron Cheney]

If you're looking for new lyric ideas, try this:

My family plays this game at family reunions that is great for getting to know people, but also a great idea-generator for songs. Somebody picks an everyday object, and then everyone has to tell a brief personal memory that relates to it. For example, the object might be a pair of shoes, and one person might remember standing in Grandpa's big shoes as a child, and someone else might remember playing kickball and their shoe flew off and hit somebody in the face, and a third person might remember when mommy chased daddy around the house whacking him with a shoe because he smeared chocolate cake on her face.

At the end of an evening you end up with a big pile of unique and interesting vignettes, and those are what make great songs. Why write the tired, worn-out "I Love You" chorus when instead you could write about how a husband felt watching his wife put on her makeup, or tucking their children in at night, or standing in the rain waiting for him when he gets off work?
Sure, Father Mackenzie does weddings down at the church... but it's only when you see him picking up the rice in the church all by himself that you really start to understand how lonely he is.

got mojo?
www.voodoovibe.com

[sonicpaint]

That's a great idea Aaron, damn!! I've been in a dry spell for a while mostly due to a long break from writing and I need all the help I can get right now. Thanks!!

later
sonicpaint

[zipperhead]

Write about what you know. Write about what you feel strongly about. Write as simply as you are able to and be direct. Develop a killer vocabulary so you will be able to find the perfect nuance for your vast emotions that will fill your line perfectly. Go get 'em.

[Beltrom]

Originally posted by zipperhead
Write about what you feel strongly about.

The trouble with that is that at least I would either have to repeat myself or wouldn't write to many songs.

[joro]

start with the hook....and build from there....
























if you hook it.....they will listen...
Joe

[Jagular]

Something I posted earlier at a different forum today:

Well… let’s see here. Usually (85% of the time I’d guess) a song starts with me as a hook or a general idea that I want to get across that leads to a hook. Usually from there, I write the lyrics and melody together, but not always. Sometimes lyrics come first and suggest a melody. Occasionally, I just get a cool riff in my head and go from there. I usually first off kind of set up kind of a story board for the song. This helps give a little direction to the flow of the song. I am currently using a trial version of Lyric Pro software that is very useful for this to keep me organized. It has a brainstorming function that let’s you kind of rough out the idea. I usually just write prose first to get the general shape of the story. This is usually where I will decide what form the song will be. Sometimes a story lends itself well to an AABA form or sometimes VCVCBC from or whatever… Also at this point I try to take some time to relax in silent reflection of the story and not write anything. I try to visualize the story, kind of like a movie. I can sometimes get some good word pictures that can be used in the song this way. This is actually a step I think I need to spend more time with.

Then I will usually work with the chorus (or refrain) first since this is where I need to drive home the point of the song. This is where the power of the song needs to be lyrically and melodically IMO.

Once I get the chorus down, I will try to flesh out the first verse and make sure it flows smoothly into the chorus. The first verse needs to be strong and get the listener interested. I think the first verse is second in importance to the chorus/hook. So that is the order I choose to work it.

Once the first verse is done, I try to flesh out the other verses, bridge (if there is one) etc. along the story line. Sometimes at this point, the chorus or other parts might get tweaked as the puzzle attempts to fit together. In fact on the last song I finished recently, I ended up changing the entire story line around the hook because something better (hopefully) occurred to me.

I have to confess to the fact that I have never read any “how to” songwriting books. The techniques I have come from either just doing it or from tidbits picked up along the way from advice from others, both in forums and other places. I intend to start studying and practicing the craft in a lot more detail. There are a lot of techniques that I have been introduced to recently that I have not yet used. I want to try these out and see how they work for me.

My biggest problem, I think, is that I write very slowly. Part if it is the time factor. I don’t often have a block of time I can sit down and just write. Another factor, I’m sure, is lack of knowledge or technique. Another factor is that I constantly edit as I go. I can’t get out of that frame of mind. I think the quickest song I have written is this last one. I think that took 3 or 4 weeks. I really want to try to get the speed up and keep (and improve) the quality. I’m confident with a little discipline and some added technique that I can achieve this. I think by the end of this year I will have written 5-7 songs. Next year, my goal will be 12 (one each month). After that I would eventually like to get to one each week while still doing it only in the limited time I have. If I ever get to do it full time, then I will endeavor to up the output even more. Of course all of these goals are only meaningful if the quality does not suffer. So if it does start to suffer, I’ll have to re-evaluate.

That’s my story and I’m sticking to it

[Purnt]

Originally posted by Aaron Cheney
If you're looking for new lyric ideas, try this:

Sure, Father Mackenzie does weddings down at the church... but it's only when you see him picking up the rice in the church all by himself that you really start to understand how lonely he is.

got mojo?
www.voodoovibe.com

Eleanor Rigby picked up the rice.

Father Mackenzie wrote the sermons.

right?

[Kramer]

Originally posted by trogdor
Posting this ONCE might be a better way to get people to pay attention to it, contrary to how it might seem...

I think you need to be a little bit more specific with your question...

This piece of shit website is causing the multiple posting.

[Aaron Cheney]

Originally posted by Purnt
Eleanor Rigby picked up the rice.

Father Mackenzie wrote the sermons.

right?

Did I say Father Mackenzie? I meant Semoline Pilchards... or was that Maxwell Edison? Or wait... Polythene Pam? Mister Mustard? Rocky Racoon? Maggie Mae? Bungalow Bill? Lovely Rita? Sexy Sadie?

Oohh that's right...Father Mackenzie was darning his socks!


Dang it.


You know, whenever I teach a songwriting class, I always begin by declaring it a BFZ (Beatles Free Zone), meaning no one is allowed to refute anything I teach using a Beatles song as their argument. I do it in jest of course, but obviously I'm gonna have to make sure I'm getting my references right if I'm gonna keep doing that.


Stupid Beatles...


A
www.aaroncheney.com

[James Argo]

This link...

http://www.theprojectstudiohandbook.com/articles1.htm

Go to the bottom, and find links of "Understanding and Writing Lyrics, Part..." Go those links...

Thumbs up!!!


Jaymz

[philboyd studge]

Originally posted by James Argo
This link...

http://www.theprojectstudiohandbook.com/articles1.htm

Go to the bottom, and find links of "Understanding and Writing Lyrics, Part..." Go those links...

Thumbs up!!!


Jaymz

That's an interesting link and I suppose for pop songwriting there may be something there. I'll go back and read more later. I do wish the author wouldn't attach songs to the performer as opposed to the writer.

Let me get to the point, it's more important to get the song written and many more to follow rather than wallow in analysis. Plenty of people will tell if it's crappy or not down the line. Follow the muse.

[yiordanaki]

Did I say Father Mackenzie? I meant Semoline Pilchards... or was that Maxwell Edison? Or wait... Polythene Pam? Mister Mustard? Rocky Racoon? Maggie Mae? Bungalow Bill? Lovely Rita? Sexy Sadie?

could it have been Edgar Allan Poe?? Sir Walter Raleigh?? Billy Shears?? Martha (my dear)?? Bonnie?? Desmond/Molly?? Mr. Kite?? Vera?Chuck?Dave?? Georgia Brown?? Pablo Fanques?? Clarabella?? Anna?? Julia??


I think i should stop - half of what i say is meaningless anyway



yiordanaki

[Aaron Cheney]

Or was it..... the Eggman. (goo-goo-gajoob).



It's almost amazing, seeing them all listed like this, how many characters exist in Beatles songs. What's even more amazing is how well their names describe their personalities. I've always thought Dickens was a master at that ( Pip; Oliver Twist, Fagan, and the Artful Dodger; Scrooge, Tiny Tim, and Mr. Fezziwig; Nicholas Nicholby, etc , etc, etc, ) but I suddenly realize the Beatles deserve the same status.

A
www.aaroncheney.com

[mikeh]

I've always been a fan of and a student of the Beatles music (what musician/songwriter ain't) but what many people don't appreciate is the fact that the Beatles body of work all happened in a span of about 7 years!!!!! (not to mention all the solo work psot Beatles)

Those guys created more work (some pure pop perfection, and some very cutting edge, for it's time) and were on the leading edge of more musical breakthroughs in a few short years than any of us are likely to see in a lifetime.

[DrSpankenstein]

this might be sorta off topic, but read. Most of the good writers I know are all well read. I know for me it has helped. read everything and all the time.

my two worthless cents
dave

[Aaron Cheney]

They say "garbage in - garbage out". I guess the opposite is also true.


A
www.aaroncheney.com

[LI_Slim]

Originally posted by DrSpankenstein
this might be sorta off topic, but read. Most of the good writers I know are all well read. I know for me it has helped. read everything and all the time.

my two worthless cents
deve

I think those are valuable pennies. In fact, I would expand it. Read, listen to musical genres outside your own, go to museums and art galleries, plays, dance etc etc.... art translates


btw Aaron, good posts ... I'd take your class any time, even though I am skeptical about the extent to which songwriting can be taught!!!

[Aaron Cheney]

Originally posted by LI_Slim
...even though I am skeptical about the extent to which songwriting can be taught!!!

Ahh... such is the nature of art.

One of the first things I express (right after declaring the class a BFZ) is that songwriting does have rules that can be taught, learned, and followed. After the class gets done protesting I use this example:

A painter is an artist, but he has rules he must follow: for example the laws of light, color, and perspective. However... an artist can break those rules as well. Take Escher, whose drawings distort perspective regularly, or Dali's surreal landscapes that bend the rules of color and light. They are both brilliant artists that prove something very valuable: that rules lead to understanding. Once you have achieved understanding, then you can break the rules brilliantly.

Understanding is the leap that seperates the true artist from the amateur.

How many times have you seen someone look at a painting (Picasso perhaps), and say "It looks like a child did it. I could do it just as well...". But they are wrong. They lack the understanding that comes from learning the rules of the art. Maybe they could get lucky one time out of a thousand, but they could never "do just as well" on a consistent basis.

So... I teach the rules of songwriting, and I believe they can be learned. But gaining the understanding one needs to transcend the rules.... that's all up to the individual.

A
www.aaroncheney.com


p.s. I've been toying with idea of writing a book on the subject. I've certainly got enough notes from my class. Now I just need the time....

[LI_Slim]

Originally posted by Aaron Cheney
Ahh... such is the nature of art.

One of the first things I express (right after declaring the class a BFZ) is that songwriting does have rules that can be taught, learned, and followed. After the class gets done protesting I use this example:

A painter is an artist, but he has rules he must follow: for example the laws of light, color, and perspective. However... an artist can break those rules as well. Take Escher, whose drawings distort perspective regularly, or Dali's surreal landscapes that bend the rules of color and light. They are both brilliant artists that prove something very valuable: that rules lead to understanding. Once you have achieved understanding, then you can break the rules brilliantly.

Understanding is the leap that seperates the true artist from the amateur.

How many times have you seen someone look at a painting (Picasso perhaps), and say "It looks like a child did it. I could do it just as well...". But they are wrong. They lack the understanding that comes from learning the rules of the art. Maybe they could get lucky one time out of a thousand, but they could never "do just as well" on a consistent basis.

So... I teach the rules of songwriting, and I believe they can be learned. But gaining the understanding one needs to transcend the rules.... that's all up to the individual.

A
www.aaroncheney.com


p.s. I've been toying with idea of writing a book on the subject. I've certainly got enough notes from my class. Now I just need the time....

Besides understanding, I think, talent, innate inspiration, whatever it is, also separates the amateur from the true(r) artist.


Your book should include a CD, of course.