Those with electronics experience take a look....

[tubedude]

I think I am going to buy an ART ProVLA optical compressor.
Its been called a poor mans La2a, among other things. Supposedly a great compressor for the price, its downfall being that it kind of clouds things up just a bit, which is exactly what kept it from becoming a pro-audio gem. I've read in several places that the design was an accident because it sounds so good, good color, except for the cloudiness. I'd be willing to bet it has something to do with cheap components and cheap tubes.

Who here has the experience, time, and know how (I'll pay you for parts and labor) to go through that box and replace everything thats degrading the signal with top of the line stuff?
Its not something I can do, personally, I wouldnt even try unless everything was socketed.

Any takers? Anyone have any info on this piece? Any schematics anywhere that you know of?

Hey Tanner, maybe if I find the schematics you could shoot me some ideas?

Thanks!
Paul

[toby.I.]

i'm certainly not qualifyed to mod your art but if you pass me the schematics i can tell you how its different to an LA 2. i've just finnished building an LA 2 clone ( just needs the transformers and the elemnt- i'll post pics when its done ).

from my some what ameturish opinion it probally runs at a lower voltage. from a design perspective if i wanted to build a cheaper valve compresser the first thing i'd do is halve the voltage. this means you don't need all the high voltage capacitors in the signal path, which will probally halve the cost of building the unit. the second thing i would do is get rid of the input and output transformers.


if you pass me the schematics i'll have a look and suggest what mods can practically be done.

[Flatpicker]

Warning, Will Robinson, Danger! Danger!

I’m betting that if ART could have easily and cheaply made it into a “world class” piece, they would have. Sometimes you can upgrade capacitors and the like, but there’s no guarantee it’ll sound better or worse. If it uses a tube (Does it? Not sure...) you can change that yourself if it’s in a socket.

Considering the cost of decent caps, tech time ($30 - $60 an hour), and the fact I’ve never seen a schematic, I’d say you’re better off just buying an LA 2 clone because it’s not only going to be cheaper, but you can always sell it for what you have in it. In other words, paying to have the ART modified is a very bad investment, especially since you're entering un-chartered territory.

OTOH, if you have a tech buddy that’s willing to reverse-engineer it and experiment around, wouldn’t hurt to try, I guess...

[Teacher]

Originally posted by tubedude
I think I am going to buy an ART ProVLA optical compressor.
Its been called a poor mans La2a, among other things. Supposedly a great compressor for the price, its downfall being that it kind of clouds things up just a bit, which is exactly what kept it from becoming a pro-audio gem. I've read in several places that the design was an accident because it sounds so good, good color, except for the cloudiness. I'd be willing to bet it has something to do with cheap components and cheap tubes.

Who here has the experience, time, and know how (I'll pay you for parts and labor) to go through that box and replace everything thats degrading the signal with top of the line stuff?
Its not something I can do, personally, I wouldnt even try unless everything was socketed.

Any takers? Anyone have any info on this piece? Any schematics anywhere that you know of?

Hey Tanner, maybe if I find the schematics you could shoot me some ideas?

Thanks!
Paul

save yourself the headache get the UAD-1 and apply that la2a sound in the mix instead of while tracking...

[chessrock]

Hey Tube,

Check out this link:

http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/gvincent1/


These guys do mods on a lot of stuff. Might be worth a try.

[chessrock]

Actually, to amend what I just posted, try going to their web site at www.audioproz.com. Give them a call and ask for Vince. He'll try and talk your ear off by the way, but he's very helpful. I just checked in to it and it looks like there's a mod he does on the VLA. (617)926-8020

Tell him you talked to Keith @ Moon Unit Sound.

[darrin_h2000]

I would be willing to bet theres several ways to improve this sonically. Id change out the tube first and then look into op-amps and such

[MISTERQCUE]

Yo' T-Dude, a year or 2 ago you started a thread here in the Rack Forum regarding building your own pre. That particular thread of yours, I believe, garnered madddd attention with several members posting schematics,diagrams, tips etc, for building your own pre. I bring this up as for the life of me, I can't find your thread using the "SEARCH" function or any other method. That thread of yours motivated me into 1st attempting to construct my own basic preamp(which failed; no patience) and subsequently building a simple D/I unit from info gleaned in that particular thread.
Perhaps if you know of the link(if you do, pls post) and refer to some of the suggestions that were provided, it may help you with your ART project.

[sweetnubs]

Stay away from ART (applied retarded technology) what you got here is a solid state gain stage (crispy IM odd-harmonic distortion) and a tube stage which accounts for your haze and mud. It is not a true tube leveling amplifier but it is a true toob leveling amplifier. (starved plate design) Just save up yourself a little more cash and get yourself a LA4. (about $600 off e-bay.)

[tubedude]

The tube is just an effect of sorts, I guess. it MIGHT even work without it, which would be nice.
It is a true optical compressor though, and is said to impart a nice color, and like I said, has been said to be considered an "accident" because its the only thing they ahve worth having besides the D/IO. Poor mans La2a... heard that said several times....

[toby.I.]

if you want a cheapo all tube compressor look at the bellari rp583. they get slated here all the time, but i love it so much it has been my main compressor for the last two years! the first half of the unit is high voltage (275 v) tube. on one of the schematics sites i've read a guy saying that you can replace the soild state balancing amps with transformers really easily.

[Flatpicker]

Originally posted by toby.I.
if you want a cheapo all tube compressor look at the bellari rp583. they get slated here all the time, but i love it so much it has been my main compressor for the last two years! the first half of the unit is high voltage (275 v) tube. on one of the schematics sites i've read a guy saying that you can replace the soild state balancing amps with transformers really easily.

Now THAT sounds like a worth while project, provided you could pick up a cheap used one.

[Fletcher]

Originally posted by tubedude
I think I am going to buy an ART ProVLA optical compressor.
Its been called a poor mans La2a, among other things.

It's really more in the 'among other things' catagory than that of an LA-2A catagory... the other things being total crap.

Supposedly a great compressor for the price, its downfall being that it kind of clouds things up just a bit, which is exactly what kept it from becoming a pro-audio gem.

Right... it sounds like shit [at any price] which is what has kept it from becoming a "pro-audio gem"

I've read in several places that the design was an accident because it sounds so good, good color, except for the cloudiness.

Did you read this before you hit the 'submit' button? Good color except for the cloudiness? Good grief.

I'd be willing to bet it has something to do with cheap components and cheap tubes.

... and a design that allows the unit to be manufactured inexpensively... and a design that cut more corners than it probably should have... and a power supply that is probably insufficient for a pocket calculator... and a whole host of other reasons... it's not a "pro-audio gem" [I may hate the unit... but good lord I do love that line... I could just walk around saying it all day... pro-audio gem, pro-audio gem, pro-audio gem, pro-audio gem... damn that felt goooood!!]

Who here has the experience, time, and know how (I'll pay you for parts and labor) to go through that box and replace everything thats degrading the signal with top of the line stuff? Its not something I can do, personally, I wouldnt even try unless everything was socketed.

Dude, trust me... it's something you can do yourself... just take everything out of the box, fill it with dirt, insert a spider plant and you'll find it sounds better than it has ever sounded before.

As for getting someone to go through it and modify it... I seriously hope you're joking. That would be a complete redesign... you're probably looking at a minimum of 250 hours of work [probably closer to 1000], what would be paid in just FICA would be more than 10 of those units are worth... bro, a little grasp of reality goes a long way... it's a mass marketed cheap piece of shit... not that there's anything wrong with that, but please, don't try to build a hot rod out of a KIA... it's just silly.

[Son of Mixerman]

Originally posted by tubedude
I think I am going to buy an ART ProVLA optical compressor.
Its been called a poor mans La2a, among other things. Supposedly a great compressor for the price, its downfall being that it kind of clouds things up just a bit, which is exactly what kept it from becoming a pro-audio gem. I've read in several places that the design was an accident because it sounds so good, good color, except for the cloudiness. I'd be willing to bet it has something to do with cheap components and cheap tubes.

Ive been down this road before...not on the VLA but on other cheap pieces of stuff. Why, just because it was part of my father teaching me about electronics. One of the biggest differences between the VLA and a LA-2A is parts, its not like reaching into a bucket of KFC and seeing what part feels good. Alot of the older pieces of vintage gear was based upon military components. Its seems (to this day) that the US military spends alot of money making things that are heavy duty and high quality so they last 30 to 50 years verses 3 years found in "other things" My day job is in airborne radar systems, I see LRU's (line replaceable unit) that bear uncanny simularities to things like the Fairchild 660/670, LA-2A Etc...because...well what do you think fairchild's main business was? Some of these LRU's are older than Fletcher and are still doing thier job...how many VLA's will be in a 24/7 studio in 20 years? Lots of the stuff that is affordable isn't designed with the same life expectancy. One of the basic rules of design...if its not exactly the same..it will never sound the same or look the same. Clones are rarely clones in todays world, most of the time they are mutant variations..some beneficial and other deleterious.

I used to have a bucket of failed bread board experiements I even still have a Vaccuum Tube Voltage Meter from these twisted experiements. Ive since flushed my mind of such things. It would be cheaper to build a LA-2A from scratch than to make a VLA sound like one.

Originally posted by tubedude

Who here has the experience, time, and know how (I'll pay you for parts and labor) to go through that box and replace everything thats degrading the signal with top of the line stuff?
Its not something I can do, personally, I wouldnt even try unless everything was socketed.

Any takers? Anyone have any info on this piece? Any schematics anywhere that you know of?

Hey Tanner, maybe if I find the schematics you could shoot me some ideas?

Thanks!
Paul

You shouldn't say to shoot you.... what you asking is to have someone do the equivalent of sticking a soldering iron in their eye socket to the hilt... and you'll pay them for that

The VLA is a LRU... remove and replace with an upgrade. Or use it for what it is... I have a 3630 because it works on my rhythm guitars... not the best comp, but for some freakish reason it adds some grunge/dirt like its broken or something. Beats cutting a slit in a speaker cone

Ive learned something from my kids recently... If I want a black line... I use a black crayon..if I want a blue line I use a blue crayon.. trying to avoid the using the right crayon in the first place is a timely experiement which will in the end look like different colors smeared together..rather than blue or black.


Go figure..Kids


SoMm

[darrin_h2000]

Could Fletcher be the AntiSonusman?

[Flatpicker]

Originally posted by Fletcher
...Dude, trust me... it's something you can do yourself... just take everything out of the box, fill it with dirt, insert a spider plant and you'll find it sounds better than it has ever sounded before...

ROTFL!

[krimson]

Actually a good friend of mine worked on a local studios ART VLA and replaced a number of components (I don't know exactly what he did since we didn't get into details during the discussion) and he said that it improved the sound of the unit remarkably. He never mentioned anything about it sounding like an LA-2A of course but he said that it definatly sounded better than before and made it much more usable.

BTW my friend has also made a LA-2A as well and is currently marketing his own 2 channel preamp which is killer.

[Teacher]

how much is the 2 channel pre going for?

[krimson]

His pre-amp is going for $1500 Canadian. It has a 24 position stepped switch for gain control with very expensive high quality resistors in each spot. Discrete circutry throughout. It's not a colored pre, very clean and transparent. They are completely done the prototypes and are just about to make the final production versions. He already has a bout a dozen on order now.

[Flatpicker]

Originally posted by krimson
His pre-amp is going for $1500 Canadian. It has a 24 position stepped switch for gain control with very expensive high quality resistors in each spot. Discrete circutry throughout. It's not a colored pre, very clean and transparent. They are completely done the prototypes and are just about to make the final production versions. He already has a bout a dozen on order now.

Do you happen to know if it’s transformer coupled? If so, is it on both input and output, or just input? Also, what is he using as a gain block – 990, API, or similar type, or his own design?
Just curious...

[krimson]

Originally posted by Flatpicker
Do you happen to know if it’s transformer coupled? If so, is it on both input and output, or just input? Also, what is he using as a gain block – 990, API, or similar type, or his own design?
Just curious...

Yes it is transformer coupled in and out. Very high quality transformer. All contacts are gold. I must also note that the 24 step gain switch (2db increments) are ladder attenuated. So therfore when switching to the next position you are changing to and completly separate resistor, not adding resistors together wich creates noise.
It also has stepped Vu meter with peak hold on peak and -3db points.
I forgot to also add that you have to buy the power supply as extra $150 Canadian on top of the price, but you can daisy chain 3 of the 2 channel preamps with one power supply. Very high quality components througout. He is also working on a web site for the near future.

[Flatpicker]

Originally posted by krimson
Yes it is transformer coupled ...

Thanks for the info.

[Alchemy]

Originally Posted by sweetnubs

Stay away from ART (applied retarded technology) what you got here is a solid state gain stage (crispy IM odd-harmonic distortion) and a tube stage which accounts for your haze and mud. It is not a true tube leveling amplifier but it is a true toob leveling amplifier. (starved plate design) Just save up yourself a little more cash and get yourself a LA4. (about $600 off e-bay.)

Here is the schematic for the LA4. I really wish I could post the one for the dual levelar as I bet it is really similar.

http://www.waltzingbear.com/Schematics/Urei/LA_4.htm

Yes that's right folks it is a solid state optical compressor with a tube output stage. The design is very similar to the ART optical and art even says so in the manual for the VLA I have. So sweetnubs if you think you have some amazing variable transconductance tube compressor, think again and save your pennies man because a real one will cost you about $4000 a channel. you have the very same odd harmonic solid state compressor you described in your flame.



So It is an optical compressor NOOB!!! It has a tube output stage, at what point does that become crap? the best non variable mu compressors are optical NOOB!!!!! so again at what point does a tube output optical compressor = crap? ART should be commended for producing an Optical compressor with a tube output stage that "IS" modifiableat this price. I got my single space ART VLA dual levalar for $65 used and put 2 vintage, matched lo gain RCA 12bh7a tubes in it and it is very nice. I spent a couple of days going thru my huge collection of tubes and comparing them with the same recording and taking notes. These were the only tubes I thought were flat and smooth enough for this unit. Tubes are a different animal and if you think you can get the right tone be trying a couple of different types you are likely wrong unless you get lucky.
I have been making live recordings of bands thru this thing for about 4 years and nobody has said anything but wow.

Here is a link to a guy who mods these. wow can you belive that, a guy who knows his shit actually spent the time to improve what you say is a POS.

http://www3.telus.net/public/vintage1/record.htm

So fear not and get the ART modified, optical compressors are really transparent and with the right tubes, tweekage and proper parts swapped, it should sound fantastic. Again shame on all you newbie naysayers. You guys don't know shit and you should all take your place in line and paint all of your faces green for all the world to see that what you say is a load of BS.

You all are the reason I stopped looking at these things because you think you know something and you muck up the works with all of your newbie BS. If you don't know shut it and let those who do help the people who ask.

[Big Kenny]

And it only took two years

[Kevin Deschwazi]

Originally Posted by Alchemy

blah....

You don't know it but you just made a tit of yourself.

I'm glad you like your modified ART compressor though.