age old question

[atw23]

im trying to decide between a fender and a gibson.. i can spend about a grand,maybye a little more.

so what do u like about fenders and gibsons, i like a good clean sound but i like to play heavy music as well. im looking for a versatile guitar for recordings.

im leaning towards strat and les paul/sg styles

im sure their are other great guitars beside fender & gibson but its difficult to order from catologs and find the perfect guitar.

id like to here your opinions and advice, thanks.

[Outlaws]

Hmmmm.......a mix between a Strat and LesPaul




Fuck it.

Get a Tele.

[Richard Monroe]

Try what I did. First, don't buy any guitar you haven't played. When you find one that really *feels* right, buy it. Then put the pickups in it to get the sound you want. I got an SG and put Seymour Duncan SH-4 and SH-14 pickups with coil taps in it. That way, I can switch back and forth between double coil (humbucker) and single coil (classic Fender) sound at the click of a switch, or use one of each, like a hybrid strat.-Richie

[scottboyher]

Tele!

[Moonrider]

Get both - you've got about a grand to spend...

Get a Strat:
Strats

Get a Gibson:
Gibson

[Kelly5150]

Go and try em both, choose the one that fits you best.... One of em will stand out....

[donkeystyle]

i own a fender cyclone and a gibson 57 les paul reissue.

the fender is alright. i screwed up the humbucker and had to replace it. i ended up putting a gibson 500t in it. it sounded a little better after the 500t was in it, but not a whole lot. fenders have a ton of high end twang no matter which body style you get.

I personally like the cyclone more than any of the other fender styles. i would like to get one of the jaguars that had block inlays eventually and maybe a mustang.......but those would just be for collection purposes. i've head good things about the cyclone2, but i have never heard or played one.....i don't think it looks good with the stripes and the single coil pickups.

the gibson is all around better. it makes the fender feel like a toy. it has more, tighter low end. it sounds heavier.......the bad part is it is heavier (weight wise). I personally think the one i got sounded a little darker than the other les pauls i tried.

i've been told that the 3 pickup firebird can get tele like tone from the middle pickup. i don't know if that's true though.

i would go to a music store and play a bunch of guitars. once you decide on which brand/style you want, ask if you can go into the storage area and try all of the ones being stored.

you said your looking to spend a thousand or more.....if you decide on a gibson, i would personally save up and get a les paul standard as your first gibson...i think you would be happier with an LP.

and also make sure it really has the sound you want. even take your amp in and any effects you use and insist on trying it through them. if you think there's any possibility that you are going to sell the guitar in the future you don't want to change the pickups. the guitar will drop considerably in value.

so yeah back to trying every one they have in stock. just have one of the employees sit in front of you and strum an E chord. get an idea of how the guitar sounds. like it has a lot of attack or a good tight low end, etc. then move on to the next guitar....do the same thing.....find like 3 or 4 maybe even 5 that really stick out as being better than the others.......then plug them in and do it again, but listen for tone and output.

if the music store wont let you do that, then try another store. if you're going to be spending over a thousand dollars on a guitar, they better be willing to do some work for you.


I would avoid catalogs. the companies don't set the guitars up. you get it in the same condition it came from the factory....often times in the same box it was sent to them in, so you know they didn't touch it. anyway.
(this next part is just hearsay) i've also heard that they don't get the "choice" guitars......meaning weight wise and soundwise.

also, often times music stores will give you the same or better deal on the more expensive guitars.

if you don't live in a town with a few music stores or any music stores it will really be worth your while to go to a larger city and look in stores there.

if you're going to go the mail order route, try these guys. they sell a lot of guitars and they do a lot of mail order stuff and they can make you some badass deals on gibsons. they'll treat you right.

http://www.music-machine.net

also, you can find cyclones real cheap on ebay. like 200 or so dollars.

[Garry Sharp]

Our guitarist changed from a Fat Strat to a Les Paul Studio and the difference was phenomenal. His new sound made us all play better too. What a beautiful guitar.

[dragonworks]

you can allways resell a gibson

[dobro]

Fender or Strat? Doesn't matter. Buy the right guitar is the important thing.

Try it out: play it without plugging it in first. Feels good? Okay, plug it in and listen to it. Sounds good? Okay, check the price tag. Can afford it? Okay, take it home with you.

[Richard Monroe]

A Fender or a Strat? Do you carry your lunch or take it to work?-Richie

[Reilley]

It's almost an impossible question. Previous posters have it right: you're got to play 77 guitars and make sure the one you choose FEELS right. Even among expensive Fenders and Gibsons there is great variation among a rack of apparently identical guitars. Wood is an organic product, and no two pieces are the same; plus, there are differences in human workmanship.

That said, if I could only have one electric guitar, it would be a Gibson over a Fender. They simply have MORE wood, for the most part, it's GOOD wood, and it gives me MORE sound, both in quantity and quality. A Les Paul & an ES-335 are my choices.

That's not to say that Fenders aren't great. If I were a pro, I'd have several 6-string electrics, and a Strat would be one.

[Light]

It really all comes down to what sound you want. They are distinctly different sounds, and you will never make the one sound like the other. There are a number of issues involved. First of all, and most obviously, are the pickups. While you can change pickups, a pickup which will fit in a Strat can not sense as much of the string the humbucker in a Les Paul, which is the single most important part of a pickups sound.

Then there is the wood the instrument is made of. Mahogany (like in Les Pauls) is darker and woodier, alder (most Strats) is brighter and punchier. You also must consider the wood used for the neck and finger board.

Then there is the issue most often overlooked by non-builders. Scale Length. Scale length is the length of the string as measured from the nut to the intonation point on a theoretically perfect string (a string which is infinitely flexible). This can also be measured by doubling the distance between the nut and the twelfth fret. I personally think the scale length makes as big and important a difference in the sound as any other factor, and bigger than some which are more often discussed. A Strat has a scale length of 25.5 inches, and a Les Paul has a scale length of 24.625 inches. Almost an inch, which is a big deal. Short scale guitars always sound a little more blended, and a long scale guitar always sounds a little more distinct. I like to say that a short scale guitar is more like a really great choir, and a long scale guitar is more like a group of soloists. Scale length also makes a difference in how the guitar plays. Shorter scale, lower tension (should make sense). This is one of the reasons why Paul Reed Smith's guitars sound sort of in between a Strat and a Les Paul, because his scale length is 25 inches, almost exactly in the middle of the two.

I am going to have to disagree with Dobro on this one. Listen to it before you worry about how it plays, because almost all guitars can be made to play better. I can improve the playability easily, but there is no way I can make a Strat sound like a Les Paul. Factories NEVER set up their guitars right. They don't want to. You see, in order to sell a guitar, there is one rule which is absolutely gospel. No buzzes, EVER. If someone picks up a guitar and they hear a buzz, they will put it down and will never pick it up again. Because of this, they set up their guitars out of the factory not to buzz even for a very aggressive guitar player. This means the nut slots are always high, the neck usually has too much relief, and the action is too high. I guess what I am saying is, whatever you get, bring it to a good repair shop and get it set up right for you.

The other thing to consider is what your situation is. A lot of guys who play in bands with two guitar players like to have different guitars. The mix of a Strat and a Les Paul is very cool, as they have such distinctive sounds that they complement one another quite nicely, while not stepping on one another’s toes.

The most important thing though is to play a lot of guitars, and decide which ones suit your idea of a great guitar. And the best part is, the only way to do that is to spend a bunch of free time in guitar stores playing. That seems to me to be the perfect way to spend a Saturday afternoon.


Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi

[Dani Pace]

Fender or Gibson, thats a question that has been asked more times than any of us can count. In the end, it is a matter of personal preference. Both have distinctive sound and feel, so it is largely a matter of which is right for you. The one thing I must agree with everyone else on is, play it before you buy it. Although guitars may appear the same, no two are exactly the same, either in feel or sound. There are several things to consider such as your playing style, whether you play standing or sitting, is the giutar for gigging or studio work, do you play alone or with others and countless other variables which all have to be considered when determining the "right" guitar for you. Reguardless of whether you go for the Fender or the Gibson, please for your own sake try it out before you consider buying it.

[Major Tom]

Get both - Look for bargains, used stuff. I saw an old early-mid 70's set-neck Univox (Japanese) flame top Les Paul in decent shape go on Ebay the other day for about $300, as I remember from my youth, those were excellent guitars. I actually prefer to buy a guitar that has a few dings, I call it "pre--scratched"; that way I won't worry over every bump it gets. Consider some of the Korean guitars, the ones in the $300 - $500 range are very well made, although they typically require a little more end-user adjustment than domestics.

A lot of guys agonize over finding one special guitar that "sounds and feels" right to them, I gotta tell you that I'm not sure how to do that since about 80% of music store guitars have dead strings, not to mention they usually have .09 super light strings, pickups too close, and the action is often set too low. I know that guitars vary within each model, but I would venture to say they vary less than the difference between brand new and dead-as-dirt strings, and other user adjustments(truss rod, string height, intonation, pickup height..). I wonder how many guys buy one because it sounded great or felt right and it just happened to be the one with brand new strings and has the string height and pickups adjusted to his taste or better "performance" ? A lot of the "mechanics" of a guitar affect its tone - pickups too high or strings too low will decrease sustain. If its a bolt-on neck, sometimes all you gotta do is tighten the screws to make it sound better. I wouldn't pass on a guitar that wasn't set-up to my specs any more than I would pass on buying a car whose seat position and tilt steering wheel were adjusted for someone 6" taller and the radio EQ was adjusted for heavy bass... I think a lot of that "special" guitar thing is mental - if one believes that his/her guitar is special, and is a match made in heaven it is a confidence thing. Again, I know there are differences, but until you get that guitar set up and adjusted, you won't be judging it fairly. I have had a lot of guitars and worked on friend's instruments over the years, after getting 'em tweaked they all have their strengths and weaknesses, and I have certainly had my favorites, but I've never had one that I didn't like.

I do believe that aside from the obvious difference between different models, pickups, etc., the better part of tone is from the player - and subtle differences within a specific model will never be heard by your audience. If you don't already, learn how to do your own set-up - its not rocket science, and you may find some gems that others have passed on since it wasn't "special" and just needed a little a adjustment here or there; kinda like marrying an ugly woman - after being passed over for a long time, it will always be faithful, and try all the harder to please you.

[atw23]

thanks for the advice guys.. i know every guitars different and i should just find the one that sounds best, but does anyone own a paul reed smith guitar? i hear their a good mix between a fender scream and gibson crunch, although id have to special order it, and like u all said regardless of brand every guitars a little different. anyways thanks for the advice its helped....

[Light]

Originally posted by Major Tom
A lot of guys agonize over finding one special guitar that "sounds and feels" right to them, I gotta tell you that I'm not sure how to do that since about 80% of music store guitars have dead strings, not to mention they usually have .09 super light strings, pickups too close, and the action is often set too low.

I gotta say, this just is not the case. I am a builder, and my family owns a repair business. While it is true that factory guitars are never setup right when they leave the factory, I play a lot of different guitars, and when I am playing them they are all setup perfectly, with fresh strings (new strings being essential to a good setup). There is a huge difference between two guitars which are, nominally, identical. Wood is such an inconsistent material and most builders’ construction methods are inaccurate enough, that there is a big difference between instruments. Older guitars where not made by CNC machines, they were made by hand, or with machine tools with jigs which wear away (the famous example is the Martin headstock which was made with the same shaper jig in the thirties as it was in the early sixties, but in the sixties their headstocks where smaller and more rounded). Even with modern factory guitars which are made by CNC machines, you can not get around the fact that wood is inconsistent. You can never tell what exactly a guitar will sound like (and believe me we try) until you string it up. Certainly the player’s hands make a big difference, but so does the instrument.

Originally posted by atw23
but does anyone own a paul reed smith guitar?

I do not own one, but I have seen many of them. They are very nice guitars, and very well made, but I do not like them much. I can say nothing bad about their work, though I intensely dislike their warranty policy. They do not do warranty work at all. They have no warranty centers, and they will not supply replacement parts for repair shops. In an industry which includes Martin and Taylor (who both have the best warranty policies in any industry anywhere) this is not acceptable. The other reason I do not like them is that I don't think they have much character, but anytime you hear anyone say that (even me) you should take it with a grain of salt.

Go out and play a bunch of guitars, see which one works for you. When you find the one you like, take it to a professional to get it setup. We do a lot more of them then you ever could (my shop does about 2000 a year), and that makes a big difference in the quality of a setup.


Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi

[Amateur Eric]

well atw,
gotta find something you like the sound and looks of. playability can be improved. and how it looks does affect how you feel when playing. which can have an affect on how often you play.
Anyways, I have an american std. strat 'n i love it. had a better nut put on it and added sperzel locking tuners. stays in tune so much better and string changing is quicker. But, on the other hand I also own a Godin LGX-SA which is an awesome guitar that can make a tremendously wide variety of sounds. great pickups, great neck. and the ability to do acoustic tones "and" control a guitar synth. But, thats just me.
Good luck deciding.

Eric

[meriphew]

It's hard to go wrong with a good Tele or Strat.

________________
Post indie electronic
Meriphew
www.meriphew.com

[Light]

Originally posted by meriphew
It's hard to go wrong with a good Tele or Strat.

It is also hard to go wrong with a good Les Paul. Different sounds for different situations.


Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi

[atw23]

ive heard gibsons and i love them, ive heard fenders and i love them as well. ive been playing different guitars at the music shop and ive come to the conclusion that even expensive name brand guitars can sound like crap... maybye its old strings or not being set up right, or just my ears depending on the day.


with my limited budget i could only get one good guitar, and i would like it to be as versatile as possible, to play heavy metal to blues type music... and the catalogs have a wider selection than the stores and they hopefully wont have the dings like the music shop guitars.

im considering fender/gibson models because their standards, although i know their are other great guitars out there. i know all i can do is try them out but this feels more stressful than buying a car.

but is just the name brand safe enough to trust getting a good guitar out of a catalog if every piece of wood is different and craftmenship varies? maybye i can get the music shop to special order me a guitar at no charge to try it out.

sorry to keep on about this but its a difficult choice... anyways thanks for the replies its helped....

[juststartingout]

The bottom line - GO PLAY THEM - THEN DECIDE -

There are so many differences from the way they paly and sound. I have about 15 guitars of various types. I can tell you each one has advantages and disadvantages. The way they feel, play and sound are all a matter of subjective opinion. Each person will give you different viewpoint, but yours is the only one that matters, so go play them. It is the only way to tell.

Just make sure, when you compare them, do it with the same string type, same amp settings and so on. Also play them for at least 10 minutes each. I tell you that, because I hated my SG for the first 5 minutes but then it really grew on me. It is now my favorite one to play.

[TexRoadkill]

A good compromise might be a Tele with humbuckers. I love my LP but that thing is a heavy SOB. If you are going to be gigging for 3 hours you might get the Tele just to save you from the back/neck pain.