i suck at coming up w/original sounding stuff

[Jotosuds]

they all sound the same. 4/4 time. 4 chord progression. maybe a two chord prechorus. rinse. repeat.

i've exhausted my knowledge of progressions and how to create new ones. agh. i need some more voicings i think.

i've used these already:

Em C G D <------- alot

G C Em D C <----------i like this one

C G A F


i think you guys get the picture. how do you get out of this kind of creative rut? help me....

[tjohnston]

Listen to better music.... classical, jazz, blues, chinese panflute.. anything. For the most part things on the radio are musically retarded. If you expose yourself to better music you will pick up the language and start speaking it.

Another thing is to listen to songs played backwards and take ideas from that.
Lastly drink large amounts of caffiene and get wired!!!!!

[Nilbog]

amen

[Aaron Cheney]

You need to decide what your goals are. Are you writing for your own enjoyment and pleasure, in the hope of commercial gain, or for praise from an audience? You need to decide this, becuase it has everything to do with how you should write. There is no right or wrong choice, but you need to make one.

I felt the same way as you do a few years ago. I started writing songs with very complex chord changes, in very complex time signatures. I wrote a song in 7/8 during the verses, and alternating 7/8 and 4/4 in the choruses. I felt so smug and musically "cool"!

When I started playing them for people, I quickly found out that nobody cared. Nobody. Non-musicians ( and most musicians, for that matter) aren't interested in that. They just want a simple, fun song they can sing along with.

So, writing more musically complex songs can be a way out of your rut if you don't need people's praise to rock your world. For me, I need that. I want people to really dig my stuff. I started writing simple stuff, and got much better response from people. To break up the ruts that I get into, I try writing in different keys and making really strong hooks.

And tjohnston is totally correct about immersing yourself in all different kinds of musical environments.


got mojo?
www.voodoovibe.com

[WATYF]

amen to all of the above....







and the poopsmith RULES!!!



WATYF

[cellardweller]

I am in somewhat of the same circumstance as Jotosuds.

I am also very burned out and need some now sounds.

I've got Tchaikovsky (sp?), Mozart, Beethoven, and a few others, but can anyone recommend some sombre classical music?
Yes, i like depressing music!

[Layla Nahar]

copying other peoples work can help - its ok, cause you will be using it for an exercise - what I mean by copying is try to reproduce a song you like, something different from what you are writing now - see how thats done, then use the same approach for your new material.

Myself, I'm working lately a lot on getting bass lines & drum parts.

[tjohnston]

Originally posted by cellardweller
, but can anyone recommend some sombre classical music?
Yes, i like depressing music!

Promenade and the Great Gate of Kiev
Firebird
Ovature al la rouse
Siempre fidelis
Anything by Wagner

Metallica S & M Just kidding

[Pha'dur]

Cellardweller- You want depressing? Try Sigur Ros it sounds like the most beautiful funeral you'll ever attend. It is not classical though. It's sort of like a slow radiohead or something like Bjork's album vespertine

[Porter]

I haven't written many complete songs... 10-20. One night I was playing through my catalogue and I worked out two things. A lot of my songs used a similar chord progression but in different keys. Also, I was able to hear how I progressed over the years with my chord progressions. There was nothing fancy, all was written in 4/4. I put this down to listening to different styles of music (my then girlfriend introduced me to Swing music).

Remember the 12 bar blues? Uses pretty much the same chord progression in different keys.

If you play guitar use a capo to transpose the key and see if that gives you any more inspiration. Open tuning? Open chords can create a nice effect ect.

If you play piano.. if it has a transpose key, use it too.. then work out the chords and transpose it back so you know what you are playing.

How may times can you play the chords to 'Bad Moon Rising' in other songs? A lot has to do with the arrangements over the top and the melody line.. well that's my thoughts anyway.

Porter

[dragonworks]

I may be rehashing but maybe try changing keys for solos or somewhere in the tunes. Dynamic and Tempo changes work very well sometims. Try chords you normally wouldnt use.
I have a chorus that the chords are,
DM-Am-F-Am
D-Dm-G-Gm-Dm
C-Cm-Dm
after I wrote it I noticed the strings of majors to minors as somethin i had never done before and it worked.
Also there are all the passing chords and little nuances with pinkie and other fingers off the chords that, I am not sure how much you know, can enhance the performance of even the simplest progressions.
Sorry to bore you

[Musichameleon]

Hi Jotosuds,

I can agree with what you're saying. I've written dozens of songs, and they quite often use the same progressions! Another thing I find is that I often come up with a melody when I've no access to a guitar (my main instrument). I try to memorise it, or sometimes record it on a micro-cassette for later. When I finally pick up the guitar to work out some chords to match the melody, lo and behold it's the same sequence!!! (Often the G Em C D one, which I THINK in Roman numeral form is I, VIm, IV, V, which is the (again I THINK!), known as the doo-wop loop).

Ideas to get around it?

1) Write with the guitar, and start with an unusual (to me) chord. So instead of strumming a G to get started I'll strum a B. That way, I won't just automatically go to Em, or at least , if I DO, then it won't sound the same!) Or I'll start with an "uncommon" minor chord like Cm).

2) If you usually write with a guitar, write with a piano.

3) As someone hinted at before, take a selection of songs that are a style (or quality?) that you would like to achieve, and either transcribe them, or cheat and get the tab from the net. See what chord progressions they use.

NB I read a superb article about the Beatles in the UK mag Total Guitar, which basically looked at about 25 chord sequences that they used in their songs, and explained the theory behind them. It also gave example where the sequence had been used in songs which the Beatles had almost certainly heard, and probably PLAYED, during their Hamburg days. The point is, they had to learn how to play hundreds of popular songs, and by doing that, they also collected library of chord progressions which they often incorporated into their own work. Like 'em or not, they knew how to write a hit song...!

Hope some of this helps.

Cheers,
Mscmln.

[CyanJaguar]

there are some books that list most of the progressions used in popular music.

If you are trying to come up with different melodies, try using the "melodic quantitative" method that I described somewhere on this board. It helps a lot

[rguagenti]

Learn a new chord! Sixth and Ninth chords are very popluar. Learn a C6 ,C9, G6 and G9 chord(they are the easiest to play on a fretboard). Also play around and come up with different chords.

Play an A chord and lift up your ring finger.

Try a D to Dsus, just drop your ring finger from the 2nd fret on the high E to the 3rd fret. Pete Townsend built a career around this progression.

Major 7th: Play and F chord(not barred) but leave the high E open as well. Play a C chord but lift your index finger.

I think you get the idea. Think outside the soundhole(no pun intended) and experiment a bit. There is also a wealth of information on the net if you type in "guitar chords" in your browser.

Start a song in one of these "alternate" chords and see where it takes you.

I assume you are playing guitar by the chord progressions that you are using. Same principles apply for piano(keyboards) as well. Play an F chord and move the third, one step to the right, etc., etc.

Someone else suggested capos and open tunings. Ditto.

Go for it.

Good Luck.

[bsanfordnyc]

Originally posted by Pha'dur
Cellardweller- You want depressing? Try Sigur Ros it sounds like the most beautiful funeral you'll ever attend. It is not classical though. It's sort of like a slow radiohead or something like Bjork's album vespertine

I'm a big fan of Radiohead and i've listened to sigur ros, and I don't think any valid comparison can be made. But I will cede that it IS f'ing depressing music. I saw them in concert on HBO's reverb and I think all their music sounds the same. same whiney falcetta voice and bowed guitar, and .03 bpm

I'm still not sure how people can listen to that band for any amount of time, unless that person is on the brink of suicide.

[stonepiano]

I take what I learned from Jazz theory in college and apply it to my rock writing.

Try diminished, half diminished and augmented chords.

Try chromatic scales. whole tone scales. These are some ways to suprise the ears. Sometimes it seems ugly or wrong, but it can be better to shock the ears with unnatural progressions than to play diatonically and be ignored.

that's what I always figured the guiding principle of jazz was.

[jimmyguitar]

I think ANYONE who has ever tried writing or has written music, comes up with this problem on occasion. I am one of them as well.

Ditto on the above comments. Make sure you listen to a lot of different types of music and REALLY LISTEN. Here are some prime examples of what I've listened to in the past (and present) for a little inspiration.

Charlie Hunter - Novax eight string guitar. He plays the bass lines and chords at the same time., He's incredible.

Ravi Shankar. Although Indian music is difficult to comprehend, especially for Westerners like myself who previously had only been exposed to music from "the West". Interesting progressions and lyrical lines. Complex, but will make what you're doing seem easier.

Anything with an Mbira. It's an African thumb and finger instrument (used occasionally by Earth, Wind and Fire). Hypnotic melodies that repeat quite often.

Also, check out some web pages that offer charts on alternate tunings and just start twisting those tuning pegs. You'll find something that will be intersting and make you want to explore it.

Hang in there. You'll get past "the block".

Jimmy

[Pha'dur]

Bsanford- Ok i'll bite they aren't really that similar when it comes to the songs. But they both build a lot of songs on odd synth tones and stuff like that. They're rythyms and delivery are extremely different i'll give you that. And they are depressing but in a very listenable way at least. But you right, subject to it for any extended period of time can be very depressing. I was just trying to find a similar band to compare Sigur ros to that was fairly popular.

[Nilbog]

I have no idea why - but Im always inspired by They Might Be Giants. And my style isn't at all like theirs.

[Layla Nahar]

don't focus on "original" cause thay aint really no such thiang. Just think about Unique - that what you do should be a reflection of you.

[quazack]

You get inspired by They Might Be Giants because they're SO AWESOME. And they have tremendously fresh chord progressions and styles.

[dragonworks]

Originally posted by Nilbog
I have no idea why - but Im always inspired by They Might Be Giants. And my style isn't at all like theirs.

Did they put out a CD with the title, something American Airmen or something of that sort???

[Jaycay]

Dont just use straight cords in a song. Add runs and licks. Also like someone else said, learn other cords besides major and minor. Experiment alot. I can't write songs which are just straight out major or minor chords with nothing else to them. I think Im sorta starting to sound more like Radiohead... Its not exactly radio friendly, but they still sell tons of records and are perhaps one of the bands with most tribute bands playing their material Ive ever seen.

[jayoneill]

Originally posted by Jotosuds
they all sound the same. 4/4 time. 4 chord progression. maybe a two chord prechorus. rinse. repeat.

i've exhausted my knowledge of progressions and how to create new ones. agh. i need some more voicings i think.

i've used these already:

Em C G D <------- alot

G C Em D C <----------i like this one

C G A F


i think you guys get the picture. how do you get out of this kind of creative rut? help me....

Try variations on a theme and see where it leads you.
For example take: Em C G D
And change it to: Cmaj7 Am Em D
OR
For example take: G C Em D C
And change it to: G7 C7 E7 D9 C9

Also, changing the bass notation can make a world of difference in how a song sounds. For example :

Em(E) C(C) G(G) D(D)

sounds a bit different than

Em(G) C(G) G(G) D(F#)

**** bass note in parenthesis.

Lastly, buy a songbook full of songs you don't know. Make sure it has the guitar chords. Ignore the vocal line and and make it up as you go.

Good luck,
jay

[proxymoron]

I didn't see anyone post these. So being a former classical orchestral musician turned pop-wanna-be I'd recommend listening to

Barber's Adagio for Strings
Satie's Gymnodopies (There are 3)
Vaughan Williams fanfare on a theme by thomas tallis

These are all more modern sounding
Old school sombre stuff would be like

Beethoven 7th symphony the second movement

There is a lot more but that's what I can think of off the top of my head. YOu probably have even heard most of that music before, they use it in movies ALL the time

but as far as writing songs that dont sound the same. Try taking some stock chord voicings and moving them up the neck. for instance play a C chord but slide it up two frets so you get

--0--
--3--
--0--
--4--
--5--
--X--

Or else just make up voicings and don't worry about playing a chord. Just put your fingers in random spots on the neck and find somethng that sounds cool.

Hope that helps
-Mike