Ooohhhhh Well

[Jblount]

Ok, let me get this straight. 0db is 0db, right? I mean I have a threshold of 0db before distortion, so does the multi billion dollar recording studio down the street. I understand compression and limmiting and EQ. I understand how to use them properly. And I understand that their better gear equals better sound. But I record something, I do it well, it sounds really good to me. I mix it, just under the level of distortion, while still retaining some dynamics. Now I burn the cd, and listen to it, it sounds great, and the vu meters push right to the 0db level. Then I do some comparrison, this is when it all falls apart for me. I pop in my fav brand new band (matching the style, and tempo as best as possible) And woh, heartache sets in as everything just jumps out at me. Its in my face, and the vu meter is in the exact same place my recording sits. So what the fat. What am I doing wrong. Is it something technical, or is it just the intimidation factor? The thought that they have 130 tracks while I have 16. That they have avalon while I have art. That they have nuemann, and I have oktava. I know its possible for me to compete, or at least I think it is. Or am I just fooling myself? Am I doomed to this "less than them syndrome" for the life of my career in recording? Help someone, I have this urge to record, and I cant keep up with the Jonse's.

[Stealthtech]

Generally speaking, Its the gear and the engineer putting it together that makes the difference.

[13th_Omen]

I think the answer lies in the mastering.

[chessrock]

Have you ever taken an apprenticeship at one of these studios you're refering to?

Brush up on your coffee-making skills and practice licking plenty of ass . . . try to get in some doors and learn first-hand how they're doing it.

There's degreed programs out there in audio engineering. Most of the Abbey Road Engineers have a degree or at least some background in physics. The really good ones are making a lot of money doing this stuff, and there are people spending several years of their time aspiring to get to that position.

What have you been doing?

[Teacher]

engineering skills....the million dollar gear just makes it easier for them to get that sound...as well as mastering to some degree...but the sound is first achieved after the mixdown...mastering can only do so much..

[regebro]

Originally posted by Jblount
Ok, let me get this straight. 0db is 0db, right?

Well no. Decibels are all relative. 0db is just the level that you compare with. It can be set to anything. -10db has one level, +4db another, and some digital equipment uses clipping as 0db and other puts clipping at +4 or +3 or +6, and so on and so on....


Anohoo, you actual question has been sufficiently answered by the others I think. It's compression and sound and pumping and EQ and reverb and stuff like that that makes it sound "in your face" not just the volume.

[Teacher]

Originally posted by regebro
Well no. Decibels are all relative. 0db is just the level that you compare with. It can be set to anything. -10db has one level, +4db another, and some digital equipment uses clipping as 0db and other puts clipping at +4 or +3 or +6, and so on and so on....


Anohoo, you actual question has been sufficiently answered by the others I think. It's compression and sound and pumping and EQ and reverb and stuff like that that makes it sound "in your face" not just the volume.

i'm pretty sure he meant digital zero...which is the same everywhere...

[Jblount]

Well, I didnt really want to be a gopher (you know, go pher this and go pher that), but I guess I could secretely steal their ideas in a big studio while groveling. I just want to do this on my own, to be self sufficent, to be the guy that starts his own studio, and one day own the multibillion dollar studio that I covet so much. I know it takes years, I just get discouraged sometimes. I guess we all need to evaluate our progress, to look honestly at our work and gague our weaknesses and strengths. Any way, I didnt want this to be some philisophical discussion, but I guess it turned out that way. I will just have to keep learning. Thanks guys for your inputs.

[Teacher]

what philosophy? just a factual statement that you don't have the skill yet.. its not a knock cuz neither do I...t i posted a mp3 at gearslutz that i posted here which everyone here thought it was good while someone at gearslutz('a real engineer') said it sounded amateurish...which was a huge blow to the old ego...i didn't sulk or cry i just ask what would you suggest for me to fix it...or how did you get your mix to sound a certain way...

[chessrock]

Hey Jblount,


I worked as a bus boy for a fancy restaurant while I was in college. Everything on their menu was amazing. During my breaks, I would go in the kitchen and watch some of the chefs at work. During afterhours, I would ask them what ingredients they would use in this dish, or how they cooked that dish. The cool ones I remember were pretty accomodating and willing to share. Their recipes were also pretty commonly shared amongst the cooking staff.

I left that job a much better cook than I was when I started. It's been almost ten years now, but I still remember some of the recipes. Too bad I'm not as interested in cooking any more. I kind of picked up other hobies somewhere along the way.

I might consider taking up an apprenticeship at a mastering house for a while if I was interested in getting my stuff really loud or whatever. Doesn't really interest me, though -- I'd rather concentrate on it just sounding good.

[Jblount]

Well thats my problem. I and my clients are really happy with the quality of the sound. But they are incistent on louder volumes. So I am doing what I can. I am an electrician by trade and I spent 4 years being the "buss boy" for grouchy old drunk construction workers. That is ok when you are like 19 and dont know your way around, but man I am 26 now. My career as an electrician has become one of respect. I am very knoweledgable and my co-workers trust and respect me. I dont think I would have the patience to do something like that again now. I dunno. I may see if I cant work weekends groveling at a local studio. I just wonder how much they will be willing to divulge to me, or am I going to have to sneak around with a note pad and a mini-camera like James Bond or something?

[Tonio]

Jblount, Just try and do what you can man..
Just keep at it, I'm sure you can learn stuff on your own.. however...
You can learn by gophering at a local studio if need be, I guess
it takes at least a little of learning the ropes the hard way like you know(and groveling
and mini camera'ing). Or you can get edmuacation(no pun intended) by dishing out
some dough. It wouldn't hurt you in the long run.
Being a trap drummer(that's what I call it because I'm a percussionist) you know the
ropes as a musician, so you have an advantage to some degree!!IMO ya just gotta get
in the mind of an AE, and translate that. Melody without rythmn just don't cut it> ha!
LOL
Previous and continuous help by fellow HR members are here(at least I have learned
alot from these guys-and I'm sure you have) and offer great tips, help and direction to
achieve your goals.
Hey I have been dong this recording stuff for maybe 2 years-seriously. But I have
always had the interest in recording back in the 4 track days. It takes time ya know,
every situation is different.
I bet ya even the top go -to AE's learn something new each day !!
Good luck, and keep at it!! Oh try checking out the mix contest for mixing pleasure, hell
I can't even get the source tracks and these guys are havin' a ball mixin..
T

[Jblount]

Thanks guys, you have all uplifted my spirits and given me a new direction.

[theletterq]

Quite frankly, how long have you been at this?

[Jblount]

Seriously about 6 months. I have always been interested in it. I think I know my way around pretty well, I just need some of those little industry tricks and more experience up my sleeve.

[theletterq]

Ok then just remember that the majority of people that made those recordings you like have been at this many many times over longer than you have!

[sonicpaint]

The sound that you hear in your favorite recordings have had many contributing factors. Every step of the way makes a difference in the final product.( thought I'm sure you knew that)

If it's just level that your trying to achieve then the tool your looking for is a limiter. Give it a try!

later,
sonicpaint

[Middleman]

Get a subscription to Mix Magazine. You will then know what you don't know.

Most pro recordings work on many levels and there is someone at each step who is making the decisions and doing the work. For one guy to sit at home and do this, it is a gargantuan task.

This said, take your favorite recording. Break it down into its elements.

Vocal sound - How much compression in what frequency range? Breathiness emphasis, volume in the mix etc.

Kick and Bass, how are they compressed and where are they in the mix? Bass melody line direction.

What is carrying the rythmn i.e. what instruments, where are they placed, how loud, how compressed?

Ear candy - what subtile instruments are added along the way and at pivotal points to keep listening interest?

Then you have to think about production. What starts the song, when do they add new insturments? Usually when the vocal is paused or when a needed emphasis is required as part of the song you pick up a new sound.

It goes on and on but once you break about 10 of your favorite songs into as many elements as you can, you start to get the framework you need to make the right decisions when you are working on your own stuff.

This is going to sound ridiculous but I spent almost 3 months trying to capture the same sound on my voice that I had heard on one of my favorite albums. Using inferior gear by the way but hey, I came very close and now I know how to get that sound.

I'm going on here but let me reference you to one guy on this board who regulary cuts some darn good tracks and that is Crawdad. Check out what he is doing with some pretty basic mic and preamps in the MP3 forum.

It's all about the ears. Training the ears.

[sonicpaint]

This is going to sound ridiculous but I spent almost 3 months trying to capture the same sound on my voice that I had heard on one of my favorite albums. Using inferior gear by the way but hey, I came very close and now I know how to get that sound

I don't think it's ridiculous, I'd call that determination. I have found through my own experiences that if you really want to achieve something you can do it. Though at times you can get it to be exactly, it's surprising how close it can be.

Good points, Middleman.

sonicpaint

[Jblount]

Middleman, you are the man! I have always made little mental notes of things when I listen to songs, but never a detailed breakdown like that, I will start on that right away. You are a more intellectual man than I hope to ever be, if you can pick up mix mag and understand every article in there. I guess I should just read and research until I understand all the aspects. Thanks to everyone for their inputs, I am not trying to sound whiney (because I absolutely hate whiney people) I just get discouraged sometimes.

[sonicpaint]

Keep at it and things will start coming together like a puzzle as time goes on and as you understand more terminology.

sonicpaint

[Middleman]

Jblount, no problem. Keep whining, it means your frustrated and frustration leads to pursuit of knowledge.