Kick Cakewalk Around With Me For A Minute Please

Moshpit · #1 10-13-2003

I am ready to purchase something for Midi. My needs are simple, Roland A-33 keyboard I like to play and practice plus use notation software to print out tunes. Mostly use the program to interface with a sound module hooked to my home stereo.

Question. Which do I buy:

1.) Cakewalk trial version came with the USB adapter (Midiman) I bought. I could purchase Cakewalk after the trial period expires. (Sybellius or Finale is about the same price as Cakewalk aren't they - I think they are only for notation though) Cakewalk is both sequencer and notation isn't it? Drawback, = I will have to learn Cakewalk.

2.) As I am changing all my audio from a Mac to a new Windows notebook I could upgrade my existing Mac versions of MusicTime and Master Tracks Pro software to Windows versions for $129.99. This is software I like.

3.) Or, I could just get Noteworthy Composer (notation only) for 39.95, save money and survive just fine with a very simple program.

Any thoughts on what might be the best choice for me?

Clemie · #2 10-13-2003

I will go with #1. I never used any software you mentioned, but i knew Master Track which i had the demo came with "Audible PC" book. I still use CWPA 9 with korg x5d and can do almost anything i wanted. Beleive me, cakewalk is very good. The time you take for learning won't be that long, and the lessons worthed it. You'll be able to do many things you never thought before (including write notation off course)

Jeyan · #3 10-13-2003

Definitely option # 1 Cakewalk is the best Choice.

BloodShark · #4 10-14-2003

Go for Cakewalk. Once you start using it you won't want any other software.

Moshpit · #5 10-14-2003

I trust your recommendations here. And, the fact that there is a lively forum on the subject is a definite plus when considering buying software.

My only reservation at this point are: 1.) the tutorials didn't work in many cases I couldn't tell what they were referring to for controls, for instance, for looping, they said to click on a control but I was not able to locate it. I'm sure I'll figure it out eventually. 2.) I tried to e-mail the company from their website to let them know I was considering purchasing and wanted to know how the looping feature worked - no response yet. But, how many software companies respond to e-mails. The only one good at that I know of is Adobe but they aren't into Midi (yet.) 3.) I don't know how much it is going to cost to activate the software as a registered version. If it's what I saw on the web site. it is over $200.00 and I could get Finale or Sybellius if I have to spend that much.

Just some thoughts before I take the plunge.

I would get it based on your input here.

Thanks Again,

Moshpit

BloodHound · #6 10-14-2003

Just a thought. I love Cakewalk, but it all depends on your needs. Sounds like you are a Midi only guy. Cakewalk's strenght is the integration of a sequencer with midi and audio recording. If notation is all you need you can get away a lot cheaper, but then you will run out of options very quickly when you want to do more.

Sonar and Cubase are the 2 flagship options out there at this time. Obviously I would recomend Sonar (this is a Cakewalk forum after all) as I have been using CW products for many years and has never run out of options.

tombuur · #7 10-14-2003

Mosphit,
If you ask in a Cakewalk forum people will tell you to get c
Cakewalk ... Well, unless they are in a divorce phase.

When I settled for Cakewalk Sonar, I had already tried it. Actually I got Cakewalk version 2 with an early sound card back in 1993. Upgradeable as always. I bought the upgrade then and never used it. Then last years after having tried a little of this and that ocasionally for about a year, it was time to get serious, make a choice and actually pay for a program I really wanted to use. That was when I settled for Sonar 2.

Last year Cubase SX was just out. Everybody told me it was the most professional sequencer/midi program, and furthermore I could get it at a price never seen since over here. Yet, using Cubase felt very awkward to me. And even though Sonar at times is a bit tricky to figure out too, in my opinion it generally behaves the way you expect a Windows program to behave. Much like Word or Excel. So still not using it every week, I feel much more at ease with Sonar.

Then there is Logic which I believe is only a Mac program now. And a couple of programs so expensive that they are not for you and me.

There are, of course, a lot of cheaper or free programs. But you already have a trial version that probably is just as good as those, plus it is upgradeable to something better. So I guess that is no option.

Moshpit · #8 10-14-2003

"integration of a sequencer with midi and audio recording."

Are you saying that cakewalk will save files in other formats like .wav or .mp3? This would be great and add to the program's overall value. I just bought Adobe Audition to do file editing before burning to CD. I don't know if Audition (formerly Cool Edit Pro) will read midi files - most likely not.

BloodShark · #9 10-15-2003

Yes, cakewalk will save your files in .wav or .mp3.
You just have to create a new audio track and record what playing on your midi tracks.
I don't now CEP, but maybe you can do the same with it.

BS

moskus · #10 10-15-2003

Quote:

Originally posted by Moshpit
I don't know if Audition (formerly Cool Edit Pro) will read midi files - most likely not.

It won't. Trust me.

tombuur · #11 10-15-2003

On the other hand Cakewalk programs won't do the detailed wave editing you can get with CEP. Sure, you can add effects to audio tracks, adjust volume and all, but you can't go in and mark something as noise and then have that noise reduced, to give an example. Also for cut and paste, CEP will take a closer look at the waves etc. I have used this to find finger noise during acoustic guitar takes and then remove the offensive parts by reducing sound level drastically exactly where the noise appears.

I only wish there was some way to call up a wave editor from Sonar (or is there?). I did this kind of work a couple of years ago in n-tracks, restoring and making digital some reel to reel recordings from the seventies.

moskus · #12 10-15-2003

Quote:

Originally posted by tombuur
I only wish there was some way to call up a wave editor from Sonar (or is there?).

Oh yes, there is!

Using SONAR Utils can make any Audio-editor (or program for that matter) pop up under the Tools menu. After you've done this, just select a clip and go Tools -> Cool Edit to automaticly open the clip on CEP

You can edit the Registry yourself, but I've found that the SONAR Util is much easier...

BloodHound · #13 10-15-2003

Quote:

Originally posted by tombuur
On the other hand Cakewalk programs won't do the detailed wave editing you can get with CEP. Sure, you can add effects to audio tracks, adjust volume and all, but you can't go in and mark something as noise and then have that noise reduced, to give an example. Also for cut and paste, CEP will take a closer look at the waves etc. I have used this to find finger noise during acoustic guitar takes and then remove the offensive parts by reducing sound level drastically exactly where the noise appears.

I only wish there was some way to call up a wave editor from Sonar (or is there?). I did this kind of work a couple of years ago in n-tracks, restoring and making digital some reel to reel recordings from the seventies.

There is nothing that you can do in an editor that Sonar can not handle with plug-ins, with the added benefit that it stays synchronised to the rest of the project.

And yes, you can call an editor from Sonar. Most editors are added to the Tools menu when you install it. Just click on a clip and select the editor in the tools menu. Sonar handles the exporting to and importing from the editor.

moskus · #14 10-15-2003

Quote:

Originally posted by BloodHound
Most editors are added to the Tools menu when you install it.

Cool Edit, however, is not...

BloodHound · #15 10-15-2003

Bummer. Haven't tried CE yet. Is there not a way that you can add it to the .ini file?

tombuur · #16 10-15-2003

Okay, thanks for the tips about the adding editors to the Tools menu. It's just that in n-tracks all I had to do was double click on the clip and up came the chosen wave editor. Guess this will give you the "acidizing" editor in Sonar.

While you are at helping me with my most wanted "missing" features, is there any way I can add comments to a Sonar file? As it is I keep a Word file with the same name and notes and comments about what I have done, need to do etc. Just wish I could be inside Sonar and saved along with it.

I have tried using lyrics to make notes about individual audio tracks, what guitar played, settings and more. But it feels a little stupid using lyrics for this purpose.

tombuur · #17 10-15-2003

Sorry to be so stupid. I have found out. There is space in "Info" to make comments. Writing the above post it occured to me I had only searched for "notes" in the help file. Now did a search for "comments" and found what I needed.

AlChuck · #18 10-15-2003

Quote:

Sybellius or Finale is about the same price as Cakewalk aren't they - I think they are only for notation though) Cakewalk is both sequencer and notation isn't it?

If notation is important to you, don't go for Cakewalk Pro Audio or SONAR, notation is not one of the strong features of the software. In fact, it's practically useless for that purpose unless all you want to do is occasionally see some phrases in notation view. It's useless for lead sheets or part writing or anything you would want to generate sheet music for.

Oh, and that's Sibelius, not Sybellius.

moskus · #19 10-15-2003

Quote:

Originally posted by BloodHound
Bummer. Haven't tried CE yet. Is there not a way that you can add it to the .ini file?

You don't really read my posts, do you?

BloodHound · #20 10-15-2003

Moshpit · #21 10-15-2003

Within the next 24 hours I'm ready to order either Cakewalk or, for the same price:

Finale PrintMusic - good elementary notation software.

and for the sequencing software:

Emagic Logic EducationÊ
Recommended for Middle School-High School (This will be plenty for me.)

Logic Education replaces Micrologic sequencing and digital audio software. It remains Hybrid however (Mac/Win) unlike other Emagic products.State of the art features including 48 audio tracks in stereo or mono, up to 16 software instrument channels, 28 high quality effect plug-ins, QuickTime video integration, multiple undos, and comprehensive notation for score or test printout. Additionally, Logic Education includes the track based automation system and the superior POW-r dithering found in the more powerful versions of the Logic line. Logic Education has been developed and inspired by a constant dialog with music educators and academic institutions.

MIDI:Ê
á Virtually unlimited number of MIDI tracksÊ
á Matrix Editor, Event List, Hyper Editor, Transform WindowÊ
á HyperDrawª in Arrange, Matrix and Score windowÊ
á 3 synthesizers included: ES P, ES M and ES EÊ
AUDIO:Ê
á Audio resolution up to 24 Bit/96 kHzÊ
á Up to 48 stereo tracks (depending on CPU power)Ê
á Up to 16 audio instruments (VST2 compatible)

System Requirements for Logic Education:
Mac OS 9.1 or higher, Mac OS X 10.2 or higherÊ
Windows XP, 2000, ME, 98, 604/250 MHz or better
128 MB RAM or more, CD/DVD Drive, free USB port for XSKey Low latency Audio Interface needed for digital audio. Separate Hard disc and MIDI Interface recommended.

-------------------------------------------------------------------

Let me know if you have any comments on this - I have no other choices at this point and it is narrowed down to these or Cakewalk.

I'm also getting Band In A Box - just because it is great for assembling songs to practice along with.

moskus · #22 10-16-2003

Logic is only good if you're using a Mac. It's only a mac program now...

AlChuck · #23 10-16-2003

Why not get Cakewalk Home Studio rather than an older and no-longer-to-be-supported version of Logic? (Oh. I know they say it is, but I fear that only means they will keep selling the exisitng version forever. Probably some legal clause in contracts they have with educational institutions...)

Moshpit · #24 10-16-2003

I'll tell you, one of the biggest advantages for Cakewalk is this forum. You can't beat having a resource like this - especially since I am a beginner with this program.

I'll scour the internet for a few more hours then decide. Your help here is greatly appreciated.

One more question:

Right now, I'm using the trial version of Cakewalk Express1 version 8.04 which is not responding to instructions that are given in the tutorial, like looping does not work as they instruct - really does not work at all. Maybe this version is not meant to work with Windows XP Pro, as the install wizard gave me a warning as I was installing that "This is not an approved windows program."

Since I am also new to Windows, How do I uninstall the Express version of cakewalk now if I get the Home Studio 2004 to replace it?

BloodHound · #25 10-16-2003

You got me there. Have you looked under the Windows Settings / Control Panel / Add or Remove programs? That is where I usually uninstall the programs, including CW programs.

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