AArdvark Q10

[guhlenn]

I noticed something about the aardvark pro line that kinda confused me; the 24/96 has dsp effects; the Q10 only mentions colour changes for it's DSP mixer...

Now i was wondering why the Q10 does not have all the features of the 24/96 this seems odd since the Q10 seems the flagship of the pro line...

a somewhat dumb question though; isn't DSP based compression as usefull as the compression in the editing software? except from CPU usage, that is?
I mean the real benefit to me would be that i can do compression on the vocals while recording, but then i figured since the DSP is behind the A/D converter this does not really help me more then applying compression afterwards...

thank you,

Guhlenn

[guhlenn]

oh, and there are only VU meters for the Q10, while the 24/96 has VU and digital peak metering... How do i set trim when i don't know when a track is peaking or not?

[Sklathill]

They just decided it's not useful to put the effects in the Q10. I think it makes sense, since plugins are getting better and better. Also, note that the effects in the 2496 don't work at high sample rates. (88 and 96) Not sure about the peaking meters as I don't use a Q10 in and out...

[guhlenn]

ok, thanks

that makes sense... anyhow, anyone else about the digital peak meters?

Guhlenn

[Ptron]

Originally posted by guhlenn
oh, and there are only VU meters for the Q10, while the 24/96 has VU and digital peak metering... How do i set trim when i don't know when a track is peaking or not?

I'm not entirely sure this is what you mean, but in bottom right of the control panel there is a " button" that says "peak". If you turn it on, the meters will hold their peaks.

Ptron

[ChristopherM]

The remark about the higher sample rates is correct.

I record at the 24/96 sample rate and can't use the compression or EQ. Only works on 16bit.

[guhlenn]

Nah, I thought that VU meters did not show all digital peaks as in over 0 db. therefor i thought the 24/96 had a digital peak meter; to monitor whether the input is clipping or not... but the Q10 doesn't. Does the tracking softwar provide this?

*I should add that i currently use an AKAI DR-8 stand alone which has a peak meter for every channel*

Am i making any sense?

Guhlenn

[Ptron]

Originally posted by guhlenn
Nah, I thought that VU meters did not show all digital peaks as in over 0 db. therefor i thought the 24/96 had a digital peak meter; to monitor whether the input is clipping or not... but the Q10 doesn't. Does the tracking softwar provide this?

*I should add that i currently use an AKAI DR-8 stand alone which has a peak meter for every channel*

Am i making any sense?

Guhlenn

The Q10 control panel has a meter AND a 0db clip "light" for each channel (it actually comes on at about
-.5db). Also, if you turn on the peak button, the meters will leave a mark at the higest point they've reached until you hit the reset button.

Ptron

[wes480]

I use a Q10...and I was told long ago by Aardvark staff...and other people - I THINK...

that somehow the Q10 software had auto peak adjustment thing, that would turn down the input if it was clipping...to get it to the best useable level - something that was always time consuming to me with the Q10...

On another note, anyone know how I could use my RNC, or Drawmer 241 (or something) compressor most effectively with the Q10 - to try and stop things from clipping?

I also have a Soundcraft Spirit M12...if that makes a difference.

[Ptron]

Originally posted by wes480
I use a Q10...and I was told long ago by Aardvark staff...and other people - I THINK...

that somehow the Q10 software had auto peak adjustment thing, that would turn down the input if it was clipping...to get it to the best useable level - something that was always time consuming to me with the Q10...

I don't think that exists. It would be sweet if it did, but I don't see how it would work.

[wes480]

it wouldn't have to be intelligent...

it could just turn down the input gain by .5db if it noticed a clip. and keep turning it down by that increment until there was no clip...

it wouldn't neccessarily sound good - since you would have a gradual decreasing of volume on your track (assuming that you changed dynamics a lot in the playing)..

but i think it would still be a useful feature. if you were just trying to lay more "demo" stuff especially, and just wanted to make sure you didn't have any clipping...

although, the weird thing to me has always been, a lot of times the aardvark meters have told me stuff is clipping, and it sounds fucking fine to my ears

or nuendo or whatever, will tell me that the whole mix is clipping by 7 db and it still sounds fine

i can't bring myself to just bring down that overall mix volume - i'm not much of a mixer to start with though...

[guhlenn]

thanks both. Ptron answered my question. So to record vocals i will just have to get the RNC?

Guhlenn

[wes480]

RNC does not work very well as a peak limiter - if that is what you are trying to use it for.

The compression is good - but I could never get it to work really well for avoiding clips.

ymmv.

[guhlenn]

Our singer, female, is very good. This will undoubtly show all my lacking in recording arts . Since she has a very powerfull voice that often bursts out (in a good way )in the chorus but her melodies in the verse tend to be very laid back. Ican't get a decent level on both... we shoudl have a better mic, but since i'm beginning and poor... you know
So i need to get her voice to even out more... not sure if that is what peak limiting is or compression...

D'ya think the RNC will do?

Thanks
Guhlenn

[wes480]

technically yes a compressor is what you need...

a compressor "evens out" the volume of the track - making the quiet parts loud and the loud parts quiet - of course you control how MUCH of an effect it has..

a peak limiter (and this is a very shotty definition), does less signal processing overall...it leaves the dynamics of the track basically as they were - but anything that goes over the 0db threshhold, it trims down a bit...

There are lots of ways you could use dynamic processing to achieve your goal.

Traditionally for vocals a compressor is what you would want for tracking (as little as possible, imo)...becuase it can "bring to life" certain elements of the track, and keep the volume a bit more consistent.

While the RNC does theoretically fit that bill - I (and a few others I know) could never get the RNC to help out too much on the not-clipping element. I find the RNC very useful for compressing a track that has already been recorded (i usually run the track out of the Q10, into my soundcraft m12 mixer which the RNC is hooked up to, and then back into the Q10 - though you could do the same thing with the Q10 alone, just run it from the output directly to the input [there are some routing options in software you have to set so you don't get feedback]) - but for tracking I have a Drawmer DL241 that works for me...got it used..

You may just want to check out some gear and find something that you know other people are using for the result you want. I'm not that much of a gear head so I don't know what all is out there lately...you could probably find some proven work horses on ebay though for around the same price as a new RNC.

And again, I'm not knocking the RNC - I just don't see it as a standalone tracking option (unless you are pretty certain your signal isn't going to clip anyways - and are just using it for effect).

[guhlenn]

Thanks alot Wes! I track on a stand alone unit now and i noticed that i have a really hard time keeping the vocal at a somewhat decent level. The music is rock/metal, but the vocals are ranging from sweet and timid to loud agressive parts with lots of air being pushed. I can't get both it seems, either it clips alot or the levels are to low for quiet parts.... and i'm on a budget (who isn't?)

So i thought moving to the computer (just gt me one) would fix that but now i realise that compressing after tracking will probably raise my background noise alot right?

Guhlenn

[69ShadesofRed]

The VU meters don't hold peaks, but all the inputs and the main out meters by all the sliders show and hold peaks, you just have to turn it on. I don't use the VU meters anyway, finding the LED meters more informative and accurate.

To use the RNC use the inserts in the back.

The Q10 provides two Mic Pre profiles one for mics requiring high gain (which goes up to 75db!) and another for more sensitive mics (going up to 55db).

If Q10 or your DAW is showing clipping then it probably is, just open the recorded waveform and take a look. You may not hear an audible distortion most of the time if it clips only few samples, but clipping the whole mix is not a good idea as it tends to flatten everything and your mix sounds choked.