Roll With The Punches

[Robertt8]

Well God Damn!!! I haven't posted anything in a while, so here's my newest addition for public slamming. It's kind of an acoustic/rock/reggae-sorta thingy about getting the hell out of dodge and cruising the California/Baja California coast.


URL: http://bob.birdsallinteractive.com/
SONG: 01.roll_with_the_punches.mp3


Here's my set up...

Mic: Studio Projects C1
Mic Pre: Audio Buddy
Outboard Compressor: Behringer Ultra Dyne Pro
Gutar(s): Big Baby Taylor, and Mexican Strat on solo
Bass: Cheapest Squire
Drums: Boss Dr. Rhythm 770
Recorder: Roland VS-880EX (8 track)

NOTES: I compressed VERY softly this time (I've been TOTALLY over compressing lately, so I figured I'd back off a lot). Also, I've noticed the voice is distorting in a few places...this I'm aware of.

Let me know what you think.

Thanks!
Tait

[HevyD47Ca]

This sounds GOOD! Nice and laid-back feel.
Nothing jumps out for mix comments.
Bass could use some definition.........I use a squire fender P bass and have quite a problem getting any definition. I am thinking of trying quality strings...........
All in all I LIKED the song and mix as a whole.

Dan

[Robertt8]

Hey HevyD47Ca! Thanks for listening! I'm glad you like the tune.

Yeah, you're right, I'm not getting much definition out of the bass. I've kind of always wondered if it were my D/I that was the problem. I ran it straight into the compressor and into the recorder from there. When I plugged into the Audio Buddy, it sounded kind of distorted. I also turned the tone WAY down on the bass to give it a less distorted "growl" so to speak...and make it softer. Actually, now that I think about it, I've never put on new strings. That could probably help.

Thanks!
Tait

[HevyD47Ca]

Always start with acoustic sound of any solid body instrument I say. Once you can stand the sound without amplification, then it's time to move on to the electronic end of things

[Robertt8]

Anyone else feel like commenting on this puppy?

Also, I've wondered how much mastering would help this song (or any song for that matter) would it be obvious or a waste of money (assuming I got someone that know's what they're doing)? Anyone have any examples of pre-mastered tunes and post-mastered tunes?

[groucho]

Hey, this sounds great to me. I agree the bass could use some more presence. Cool vocal sound you got on this. Care to elaborate on the processing?

The drums could use a little more happening. That rimshot click thing doesn't change in volume no matter what the song's doing, which is one of those giveaways that says "drum machine".

Otherwise, this sounds real good. Nice stuff. And great vocal performance too.

Chris

[Robertt8]

hey Groucho! Thanks for giving it a listen!

Yeah, I'd love to get a J-Station or SanAmp thingy, but I'm WAY to broke right now. I think that would really help get me some more flexibility with the bass.

The lead vocal was done simply by modifying an effect on the Roland VS-880EX. I believe it was basically a delay with a really quick single delay to one side (I guess they call that a slap-back or something) or like 20ms or so. That's about it I guess, besides just using the C1, the Audio Buddy and some really light compression (like 1:3 or 1:2).

Yeah, I'm totally not a drummer, so I'm winging that drum machine with out trying to get too complicated. I usually do a track or two with some breaks here and there, and do some by hand live to give it a little more "flair", so to speak, but that's about as far as I go with it. I'd love to have a REAL drummer, but...um...well, I don't. So for now it's going to have to do.

Thanks for responding!
Tait

[elephant]

sounds good to me

I think you could take it up a notch by kickin' in some snare and kick at some point a'la "Two Princes" by spin dr's

ahh, I here can hear it now "crack"

[powderfinger]

i liked it man.....the percussion sounds pretty solid on the tune.....

very well done

[caryindy]

Yeah man, that was nice. Great sound - nice and mellow.
You recorded that acoustic with the C1? Did you track with the compressor? That sounds pretty good too. Nice recording.

[chrisharris]

Those backups on that little vocal section near the beginning kick ass. Nicely done, man. You should repeat that part after the "Mexico" line.

Speaking of voting and the fucking government (and porno) are you in Cali? Are you people all high? I can't believe the residents of California elected an illiterate body-builder/actor to the highest elected office in the state...and we're talking about the RESPONSIBLE residents here...the voters, right? I'll bet you didn't even vote, you freaking unemployed surfer. LMAO!!!

The (bongo?) on the right would be PERFECT in my opinion if it didn't have that fast (mechanical sounding) finger roll in it. It's in time and everything - just lacks humanness...is that a word? Humanity? OH, THE HUMANITY???

The only thing I can't vouch for (or against) are the low mids...sounds warm, and I've listened to it several times, so if it rattles the windows in your freeaking VW Bus, don't come crying to me.

Dude, don't laugh too hard, but when the guitar riff starts, I keep expecting you to bust into Neil Diamond's "Cherry," lol.

ON HEADPHONES - some hiss or something at the beginning....no biggie.

I always end up enjoying your tunes more on the 3rd or 4th listen than on the first spin - I have no idea what that means or why, but I think it's better than loving a tune on the first listen and being sick of it by the 3rd, eh? Nice delay on that acoustic...

Nits, nits, nits...lose the finger roll if you can, lol.

later,
chris

[Robertt8]

ELEPHANT: I haven't heard the "Two Princes" in YEARS...I'll have to go back and check that out to see what you're talking about. Thanks!

POWDERFINGER: Thanks for responding! I've always dug your tunes and production, so thanks. I know I can't touch what guys like you and CHRISHARRIS are doing, but thanks!

CARYINDY: Yeah, I used the C1 with the Audio Budy pre and the Behringer Ultra Dyne Pro (compressor). I compressed very lightly...like 1:2 or 1:3...I really can't remember, but it was done during tracking. I've found, as I've done recently, that when I over compress, I end up with all the tracks sounding really harsh and sort of crunchy...if that makes sense. Thanks for listening!

CHRISHARRIS: Thanks for checking this out! I always value your opinions here...with as solid as your stuff always is.

I was considering repeating that chorus line during the mexico part, but I figured I'd leave it off for a little variation. It might be worth having another look at that.

Yeah, I'm a Californian and a surfer, but I do have a job. and no I didn't vote at all, let a lone vote for the Terminator. Did you see our other choices? They all sucked. Politics suck. They're all crooks...any way. I digress...

I can definitely redo that bongo part. Sadly, that fast bongoing was actually done live smacking the bongo set pads on the drum machine...maybe I am a machine too. I'll check that out thanks!

What would you suggest? Cut some of the low-mids?

Is that the way "Cherry" starts? I'll have to dig that up and give a listen. Same little guitar riff?

Thanks for listening and responding it's always educational and entertaining! Thanks!

[sloop]

Good vocals, nice instrumentals-- You might clean the bass up a little.

This is a good piece. Very clean, clear and well written.
Don't change much!

The natural sound of the instrumentation is terrific--nice job.

[Robertt8]

SLOOP: Thanks for the advice and listening! I typically like the natural sound of the instruments, so I usually try not to mess with it too much. The more I screw with it, the less I like it. Thanks!

ON A SIDE NOTE: Anyone think this song or any of my other tunes (if you've ever listened to other tunes of mine) are worth sending out to master? I just wonder if it's worth it.

[chrisharris]

Originally posted by Robertt8
ON A SIDE NOTE: Anyone think this song or any of my other tunes (if you've ever listened to other tunes of mine) are worth sending out to master?

I don't think it's a matter of whether a song is worth mastering so much as, "will mastering help it?" There are as many opinions as there are songs, lol. Like if "Bluebear" listened, he might say "get the performance and the tracks down first, because they're horrible right now, then worry about mastering it." LOL. I personally think your tracks are better than most of the stuff that gets sent to mastering houses from homerecers, so it really just comes down to what you want. Some people swear that the only way to get that "BIG, PUNCHY" sound with "sheen" is to pay a mastering engineer to do it, but I don't believe that either. I've heard some stuff that another guy on this BBS sent to a mastering house, and I have to say that his own mastering job and the mastering job he paid for were so close that the mp3's were basically identical (to my ears, anyway) ....granted, they were mp3's I was comparing, but you get the point.

Plus, there's so much cheap software available that allows for multiband compression and limiting that I really think you're better off taking a stab at mastering your own stuff as soon as possible so that you can start training your ears...because that's where the mastering engineer's value is - in his experience...the equipment is no longer the barrier that it used to be. Couple of hints....SAVE YOUR ORIGINAL, UNMASTERED FILE. You'll probably like it better than your first few mastering attempts 3 weeks down the road, lol. Next, once you've got something you're pretty happy with, you might try sending just one tune out to a mastering house and then comparing it with your job. If you like the pro job better (you will) then try to figure out why.

Man, I sound like a preachy bastard, don't I?

[Robertt8]

CGRISHARRIS: Thanks again for responding. I agree with what you've got to say here...I'd like to figure out (to the best of my abilities) how to master or even work the functions of some of the mastering steps on my Roland recorder. Maybe at some point I'll try and send out a tune and see what the real difference is. I think that will help me deconstruct what went down during the process.

Thanks!
Tait

[erichenryus]

i always like your stuff robert. no other comments sorry.

wait....yeah, the bass is a little weak.

[PiltdownMan]

Great sound! Nice vox. I don't hear any mix problems really. A few nitpicks on the rimshot/snare level (slightly hot) and the bass is barely, barely a bit muddy for me.

This is very fun to listen to. I so dig the chorus, it's sick. :-)

Nice touch with the bongos.

The whole song's got sort of a "loose" feel. Not over-quantized and mechanical, like my songs often end up.

Like the acoustic guitar sound. Great stuff!

Piltdown Man

[PiltdownMan]

I just noticed a "weak bass" comment above my post. Funny. I almost commented that the bass was a bit strong. It's quite pronounced on my Klipsch 2.1 computer speakers. Hmm...

It's so tough to figure out who's right when there's such a wide range of listening environments here. Don't you love the challenges?

[boydrj]

This has a cool California vibe to it. Very nice. Some real nice vocals going on in this one.

I'm listening on headphones and this sounds like a huge production. I like the verb you have on there. My only (slight) nitpik may be that it seems a little bit bass-heavy, but not too much ... just a tad.

I really like the vibe of this song. Some really good writing here!

[Robertt8]

Hey thanks for responding people! I've been out of town at a wedding in Arizona dodging rattlesnakes and scorpions all weekend.

ERICHENRYUS: Thanks for the comments! I seem to be getting a weird split with people that think the bass is either too week or too strong. I'm not quite sure how to fix this. Maybe it's an EQ thing. I haven't touched EQ on anything by the way...

PILTDOWNMAN: Thanks for listening and getting back to me! I'm using a drum machine (obviously), and I usually taylor the volume of each hit, but for some reason...probably just laziness...I used some stock kit, and the certain hit are much hotter than others...I'll check that out. As I mentioned above, I didn't touch any EQ (when I do i screw it up), so I'm not surprised that the bass is muddy. Any suggestions there? Thanks a lot?

BOYDRJ: Hey Thanks! I can't seem to get a unified call with the bass. Some people say it's too loud and some say it's too soft. I'm not sure what to do with it! Thanks for listening!

[TripleM]

I really liked the song. The "words from a fire hose" stuff was cool. The vocal delivery was excellent. Liked the panned guitars in the intro. Just the funky little sound was nice. I liked the contast between verses and choruses. I liked the cheezy guitar solo in the middle.

Doubling vocals like this has to be difficult. It was real good for the most part, but I noticed a syncing thing at 1:23-1:25, and a smaller one at 2:37.

I the song could have used a punchier bass. My opinion only.

Good one.

[Robertt8]

Originally posted by TripleM
I really liked the song. The "words from a fire hose" stuff was cool. The vocal delivery was excellent. Liked the panned guitars in the intro. Just the funky little sound was nice. I liked the contast between verses and choruses. I liked the cheezy guitar solo in the middle.

I the song could have used a punchier bass. My opinion only.

Good one.

Hey thanks! Oddly enough, I don't mention "fire hose" or anything in this song. I listened to it like 5 times after you sent this email and didn't even hear anything that sounded like that, but I'm guessing you're talking about the the part where I start rattling off beach, or popular surfing spots on the Californina/Baja Mexico coast. If that is the case, the real words are "I'll go to Ocean Beach, Point Reyes, Waddel Creak, Steamer Lane..." I say it pretty fast, so I'm not surpised it's hard to make out.

Cheezy guitar solo! I'm offended! No, just kidding, actually it was pretty cheezy. I screwed with it for a while and couldn't find anything to really click, so I just kind of left it .

Would anyone offer a suggestion for the bass? Some people think it's too heavy and some think it's not punchy enough! I don't get it?! What do I do here? Maybe turn down some low end and increse some high end bass?

Anyway...thanks!

[TripleM]

Originally posted by Robertt8
I listened to it like 5 times after you sent this email and didn't even hear anything that sounded like that

Sorry. By that I just meant the rapid delivery of words. In other words - words coming out as fast as water out of a fire hose.

[Robertt8]

Hey no prob. I'd kind of considered that as a possibility, but then decided to go down the wrong path. Thanks for clearing that up...

Soooooo....any bass EQ advice out there? Is that what this needs? EQing? Like I mentioned earlier, I'd really like a bass D/I, but I'm too damn poor right now. That would probably help out a lot, but is there anything I could do at this stage?