Recording Technology: Digital, Rap/Hip-hop and the Decline of Music

[Beck]

[I moved this discussion to its own thread, since it was born out of a comment I made that had little to do with the main theme of the other thread "Anybody wanna take the plunge?" I wanted to elaborate without hijacking the other thread]

Originally Posted by FALKEN

It is my understanding that rap music came from scratching vinyl. = Analog. It was a combination of jamaicans living in queens, and poor black kids who couldn't afford drums, amps, etc. In jamaica it was already common by the 1970s for the DJ's on the radio to talk over the music. When they came to new york and started doing it on the street it became a style of music. All of the early hiphop was recorded to tape. Although later on the first digital samplers created breakthroughs in rap music, I would not say that they helped create each other. I'm not trying to nitpick this is just the story I heard. oh yeah, and Don't tase me bro!

Yeah, you probably have your origins of rap history down pretty well, but I’m not talking about the beginnings of rap as a street art. And yes I was there when it started to become popular and analog was still the most common format. Rap was different then. Heh, but scratching vinyl does not = analog recording… I think you must have forgotten to put a smiley emoticon after that statement… I hope.

But the phrase “rose to dominate” is the key point in my previous post (though that small reference was an aside to a larger point about old clunky vs. new analog).

Rap did not come out and take the world by storm overnight. In hurricane terms it was a tropical storm. The displacement of analog by digital, in the studio and as an end-user format, helped propel rap into a category 5.

Another huge influence on style (for better or worse) in American rap was intercity kids growing up with Sesame Street TV and other PBS favorites. While it was teaching numbers and ABCs it was also subconsciously shaping music ability (or lack of it), expression and style. I can still hear Big Bird and “The Count” in rap/hip-hop to this day. The decline in the influence of the church, which produced the Aretha Franklins of the world, is another factor.

My comments addressed sound recording/reproduction in particular. I’m talking about the dominant position rap and digital have had in the recording world for many years and how rap has morphed to fit within the limitations of digital. The way in which rap and digital developed, as we now know them are intertwined. There are other factors, such as “The Click Syndrome"… rhythm and bass machines without human feel.

The rise of digital and the demise of other genres are also intertwined.

From another thread:

Originally Posted by Beck

One thing in particular that has been a point of interest to me for a few years now is how digitized sound affects the listener emotionally. Of most interest to me are segments of the population that are unable to identify the source of the stress, but feel stress nonetheless.

It appears there are others that are more sensitive and are able to identify digitized sound as unpleasant.

However, both groups are negatively affected by the sound. The difference is that one group knows what it is and the other does not.

There may be a third group that really does not perceive anything objectionable in digitized sound, but I think the larger population falls into the first two groups. I’m basing this observation on the state of popular music, or rather its decline, as I perceive it… more on that later.

I do not believe it is all physiological, but rather as mentioned… interpretation or processing beyond the mechanical function of the ear. I’m drawing from other areas of human perception and experience to try to conceptualize it. For example, those that are emotionally in tune with themselves and those that are not. Some individuals are better at sensing their emotional state and the reasons for it than others. (EDIT: Our prisons are filled with those that lack this sensitivity).

For example, a person with chronic back pain may feel he is surrounded by annoying people and annoying circumstances. Another person with the same chronic condition is able to identify the pain in his back as the source of his world seeming “out of sorts.”

I began jotting down a few ideas, and it’s now slowing turning into a thesis. The general premise is that people are being more or less forced to create music that is limited and molded by subtle, but very real aural pain. (Imagine a bad Star Trek episode… first season) Thus the emphasis on thumping bass in rap and hip-hop, the rise of the sub-woofer, etc. is because digital reproduces a harsh high end.

Basically, artists and producers are unconsciously avoiding the offending frequencies and consumers are masking them with accentuated bass.

My working tile is “The Death of Beautiful Music.” IMO, what Western culture has traditionally defined as aurally complex and beautiful is heavily dependant on the purity of upper-mid and high frequencies. Some may assume I’m talking about classical music in particular, but that isn’t the case. Complex music runs through many genres.

I thought I might have invented the concept and the phenomenon would be named after me, but I ran across a book by Mark Katz while doing research.

I think some members here would find Katz’s book interesting. There is another book by Michael Chanan that I haven’t read, but it looks promising as well. Here are the links:

Capturing Sound: How Technology Has Changed Music
http://www.amazon.com/Capturing-Soun.../dp/0520243803

Repeated Takes: A Short History of Recording and Its Effects on Music
http://www.amazon.com/Repeated-Takes.../dp/1859840124

Katz doesn’t specifically address my observation that rap/hip-hop and digital technology have symbiotically risen to dominance, but he does address the interaction between recording technology and the way music has evolved.

As far as I know these are my original observations… you can say you heard it here first. Musicology is another of my serious interests though, and I understand many people don’t have the background to even approach it, much less have a light bulb go on some day and say, “ah, I get it!”

I ramble about these things knowing most people have no idea what the hell I’m talking about… but there might be one or two, now or maybe 20 years from now… someone searching the archives. It’s kinda like NASA sending out the Pioneer space probes, with messages for extraterrestrials. “Is anybody out there?”

That's one thing I like about these forums... I still find threads I hadn't seen before from 1999 while doing google searches. There are no old threads; there are only threads you haven't seen yet.

Hello future person that maybe wasn't even born when I wrote this. Welcome to this ancient archive. I'm sure my comments above are common knowledge now, but back in 2007 I was all alone.

[FALKEN]

Nice post, Beck. I, too, am a musicologist of sorts. I would draw different conclusions from the same dataset though. Bass boost on consumer playback systems was a way to make it sound "louder" at low volumes, and existed well before the days of CD's. In fact, a lot of people probably used it in order to reduce the significance of hiss when listening to casettes.

It is my understanding that rap music exploded with the invention of one of the akai samplers, which allowed for, in addition to storing and sequencing several loops, two channels of 16 bit recording (for vocal tracks). So this would predate pro tools, etc.

Check out this article

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/09/02/ma...pagewanted=all

Its an interview with Rick Rubin, who just became head of Columbia Records. He goes into his reasons for why the record industry is failing, and also goes into a bit about how he produced and shaped some of the first hip hop albums with Russell Simmons.

I would put forth my own theory that the decline of the major studios is actually BECAUSE they switched to pro tools. Talent became even less of a pre-requisite. Rubin explains that his own first task at Columbia is to re-build the catalog of music, and says more eloquently that the current catalog is crap.

I agree that CD's can cause stress, however, kids had ADD when tapes were still big and I grew up listening to CD's and never had a problem with them, until about the late 90s when they were just so freaking loud and flatlined. I think that current mastering practices are doing a lot more damage than the medium. The industry has done it to itself. It would be very difficult if not impossible to successfully sell art in the long term with share price and bonuses driving your short term decision making. Yeah there have always been stupid melodies that sell a lot of records for 100 years but there has always been art too and lately there just isn't very much of it getting put through the proper channels.

Whats really shocking is that nowadays it is hip to sell out. 15 years ago a band had to be "true to the art" in order to posess credibility but nowadays since nobody gets paid artists are expected to exploit their songs for commercial profit. In rap music they exploit their entire persona in order to sell everything from clothing lines to fragrances, and the more money they make the more cred they have. Whoa!

[Beck]

Hmmm... ok, some good points there that give insight to other issues in music. However, we had plenty o’ bass in the analog days… before and after rap and digital started making huge gains. And of course the bass and treble boost circuit in hi-fi amps has been with us for as long as I can remember. What I’m talking about here is bit different though.

The subwoofer excess picked up when both the studio side and the listener side were all digital… this is the transition point.

When CD first came out most studio tracking and mastering were done in analog. Think about that for a moment. CD wasn’t that bad as an end-product at first, but once the entire chain from laying down tracks to mastering to the end product was digital, the real pain started. It was about that time when not only rap but also other genres became bass heavy.

By the way, Pro Tools was not pro in the beginning. It took a long time for big studios to buy into it and that was largely due to having to compete with small and home studios. Open-reel digital and ADAT preceded the DAW era in the studio.

I agree it has only gotten worse, but there is a point you can trace back to where it went from just ok to bad. There were pockets of bad in the 80’s already, but the music industry as a whole, sonically speaking, started flying downhill in early 90’s and it’s been a race to the bottom ever since.

I remember when disco “died” and people were burning Bee Gees records… I lived through that. Disco reigned for a few short years before the world said “Enough!” Disco was leaps ahead of the crap rap we’ve been subjected to for over two decades. Another question I have is what has happened to the human race. Maybe music just isn’t as important as it was when I was younger.

I still say NutraSweet has something to do with it and maybe that craze when doctors were handing out riddlin like candy because they thought every other kid was ADD, but I dunno. It will all be sorted out in my future best selling book on what has happened to music.

[Whoopysnorp]

Originally Posted by FALKEN

Whats really shocking is that nowadays it is hip to sell out. 15 years ago a band had to be "true to the art" in order to posess credibility but nowadays since nobody gets paid artists are expected to exploit their songs for commercial profit. In rap music they exploit their entire persona in order to sell everything from clothing lines to fragrances, and the more money they make the more cred they have. Whoa!

Uh...do you actually listen to any rap? There is a lot more to the genre than the MTV stuff, you know.

Also, Beck, do you contend that digital is always a poor-sounding medium? I've heard plenty of digital recordings that I think sound fantastic.

[SteveM]

There is good in the corners of everything but as whole, in the major sense you have to except the fact that rap is crap. You can actually blame Geffen Records for that who in the early 90s decided to sink some 100mil into producing rap bands and completely flooding the airwaves with it because they decided it would be the next big thing. Basically they flooded the airwaves with all the gangsta crap and 10 years later you've got 20 gangs in every tiny city across the US including the one I'm in. I witnessed it going from wanna be's to actual drive by killings. And recordings as a whole, they're not on par with the best of them which were done in the 70s and 80s. Personally I think Eleanor Rigby is as good as the best or the best recording ever but thats pretty personal. It's not like it was when famous bands had heaps of talent and a catalog to back it up. And there were alot of them. They also refuse to whore thier music to money grubbing corporations. Now they've all sold out.

Tim it's kind of funny you started this thread because I had a joke title for a book kicking around in my head before. It was something like Evolution and the Decline of the Fine Arts (why digital sucks) I forgot exactly what it was but now you have the subject matter to fill the pages.

[ausrock]

Beck,

I'm with you 100% regarding the emotional effects or lack thereof with digital reproduction...................I thought I was the only person around who had beliefs in that area

[superspit]

great thread....looking forward to this evolving......

[trancedental]

Tend to agree with many of the points made especially by Beck, BTW what has happened to young black artists playing real drums bass keys & guitars & even singing as rap / dance music have become the norm?

White "rock" bands have become very unlistenable at the same time, total harshness & noise & complete lack of melodies & songs since the grunge era started with the same lack of singers as "performers" who attempt to swallow their microphones & call that vocals!

We now have a generation for whom "music" has become a side show amongst other interests for their attention. Karaoke puppets dominate the charts. Hardly surprising given the "product" prouduced by majors & on the airwaves. Many young people are actually listening to music from past decades nowadays!

As for rap from the early '80's to the start of house music late '80's initally these genres were made with musicians using new musical instrument & recording technologies at the time. There was some great records made. But once the DJ / MC became all powerful even in the recording studio the musical content became less prominent leading to us ending up where we are today!

[themaddog]

I work in an inner-city high school (Chelsea, MA), in the alternative department, where rap music isn't just a choice in music, but part of a larger "gangster" lifestyle. Although I could talk for hours about what that actually means, the focus of this post is on rap music itself.

Rap music is actually on the decline. Just like many kids who are discovering "classic rock" and are choosing to listen to that rather than newer hard or other rock, my students who listen to rap generally listen to the older stuff. In fact, they're pretty well-versed in the roots of the hip-hop genre, and aside from an occasional debate over whether Tupac is still alive, they have a decent understanding of where the music comes from and have an appreciation for the older stuff.

In addition, many of students have gotten bored with rap, and are branching out into modern rock. I can't say I approve of their choices, but all they can really recognize is what is current, on TV, etc. Perhaps from there they may acquire an appreciation and a preference for the older stuff, I don't know.

For instance, I never thought Journey's music would become so popular again... I can't tell you how many girls I've seen - younger than me - who have "Don't Stop Believin'" tattoos.

The irony is, these kids know about all the old stuff because of their IPods. And every time I confiscate one, I rip on them for the poor quality of digital music, particularly MP3's. Most of the time, it just goes over their heads.

I teach history, and because my students are pretty much wardened off from the rest of the school, and are not allowed to take music and art classes like the other students, I try to foster in them a basic appreciation for different styles of music. In my freshmen world history class, I begin the second term with a short classical music lesson where I play them some of the most common classical pieces that they know, but don't know the names or artists of the work. Beethoven's Fifth and Seventh, Mozart's Requiem, etc. I mean, pretty much anything I teach them, I teach them so that they know enough about "common knowledge" stuff so that they don't look like fools when they get out (or drop out to) the real world. When I play them these pieces, I play them off of a turntable the school has. I do this because it immediately garners their interest because many of them have never seen or actually listened to records before. In addition, they'll usually ask a lot of questions about how the technology works, at which point I lead into a discussion of which actually sounds better... :-)

-MD

[FALKEN]

Originally Posted by Whoopysnorp

Uh...do you actually listen to any rap? There is a lot more to the genre than the MTV stuff, you know.

Yeah, man. But I wasn't only talking about rap. EVERYONE is selling out. I mean, check out of Montreal recording "Let's go Outback Tonight!" Lame.... That's only the beginning. Am I wrong in saying that rappers from wu-tang clan to missy elliott to jay z are selling retail merchandise normally unrelated to music except that it has their name on it? What do you mean by this?

[FALKEN]

Originally Posted by themaddog

I teach history, and because my students are pretty much wardened off from the rest of the school, and are not allowed to take music and art classes like the other students, I try to foster in them a basic appreciation for different styles of music. In my freshmen world history class, I begin the second term with a short classical music lesson where I play them some of the most common classical pieces that they know, but don't know the names or artists of the work. Beethoven's Fifth and Seventh, Mozart's Requiem, etc. I mean, pretty much anything I teach them, I teach them so that they know enough about "common knowledge" stuff so that they don't look like fools when they get out (or drop out to) the real world. When I play them these pieces, I play them off of a turntable the school has. I do this because it immediately garners their interest because many of them have never seen or actually listened to records before. In addition, they'll usually ask a lot of questions about how the technology works, at which point I lead into a discussion of which actually sounds better... :-)

-MD

Cool, man. Do you go into a lesson as to why polka is found worldwide and how the world wars affected music around the globe?

[themaddog]

Originally Posted by FALKEN

Cool, man. Do you go into a lesson as to why polka is found worldwide and how the world wars affected music around the globe?

I teach them anything I can. To me, it's more important that they learn how to behave themselves so that they could work a job without telling their boss to "fuck off" than to know who won World War II. It just boils down to priorities.

We concentrate on getting their behavior under control first, before we can do much educating.

What do I mean by behavior? Basically, take a bunch of five year old kids that have never been told no before, and you've just told them no for the first time. They'd flip out, right?

Take the same kids, but now they're aged 14-20, and still don't understand what "no" means.

We could get into deep discussions as to why this is, where their parents and/or "the system" failed, but regardless, it's my job to deal with - and hopefully correct - it. We are the repository for society's ills.

-MD

[jjones1700]

Originally Posted by Beck

Another question I have is what has happened to the human race. Maybe music just isn’t as important as it was when I was younger.

I still say NutraSweet has something to do with it and maybe that craze when doctors were handing out riddlin like candy because they thought every other kid was ADD, but I dunno. It will all be sorted out in my future best selling book on what has happened to music.

Welcome to the corporate machine my man. Think about it, there weren't media "conglomerates" in the 80's and prior. There were more than 3 large record labels during that time too. When the media giants we have now started spewing loads of crap onto CD, the public was apparently oblivious to it and accepted it without a second thought. Bands were being "fabricated" in order to sell CDs. Look at Backstreet Boys, 98 Degrees, etc. Ron Perlman is to thank for that horrendous trend. It has always been about the money, but up until the late 80's, it wasn't the only motivation. Sell, sell, sell is the motto of today. As for the rap music, the 80's rap was unique and even I like a bit of it. Nowadays the subject matter and lyrics are all the same and that God awful "chopped and screwed" shit makes it that much worse.

As for the analog/digital transition and effect on music, I'm not astute enough to know what happened when. I was busy listening to the music, not worrying what format it was on. I didn't have a clue what went on in a studio and what equipment would even be in one, at the time. Now, every Tom, Dick, and Harry has Pro-Tools and a CD burner to make an "album". I do have to say though, some of these indie artists are much better than what the music industry is trying to shovel out in mass quantities.

[Whoopysnorp]

Originally Posted by FALKEN

Yeah, man. But I wasn't only talking about rap. EVERYONE is selling out. I mean, check out of Montreal recording "Let's go Outback Tonight!" Lame.... That's only the beginning. Am I wrong in saying that rappers from wu-tang clan to missy elliott to jay z are selling retail merchandise normally unrelated to music except that it has their name on it? What do you mean by this?

Of Montreal recorded a song for Outback Steakhouse? Jeez, I'm glad I didn't bother trying to see them at the Pitchfork festival this summer.

Anyway, what I meant to say is that there are a lot of really good artists (in rap or in any genre) who are busting their asses and making great music and not rolling in money by any means. Or if they are, it's not what their music is about. It seems like people unfairly single out rap as being materialistic and phony. I think it's because in radio/MTV-friendly rap, the convention happens to be to do songs about materialism/conspicuous consumption. That doesn't make radio-friendly rock garbage like Avril Lavigne or Nickelback or whatever any less materialistic and phony...it's just that they don't happen to sing about it.

Also, SteveM, do you really think that the popularity of rap music is responsible for increasing violence among poor minorities, as opposed to deteriorating social conditions brought on by many years of right-wing governments cutting funding for the social services necessary to give an out to disenfranchised people?

[Beck]

Originally Posted by Whoopysnorp

Also, SteveM, do you really think that the popularity of rap music is responsible for increasing violence among poor minorities, as opposed to deteriorating social conditions brought on by many years of right-wing governments cutting funding for the social services necessary to give an out to disenfranchised people?

I didn’t know you were a graduate student. Watch out for some of those tenured profs, especially the ones with the unkempt Castro beards, that reek of wine and curry, and are always hitting on girls with legs hairier than yours.

But seriously, if you are unaware of the power of music to influence behavior for good and evil, it’s a really cool subject you might want to look into.

Well heck… it’s the foundation… the first thing one must understand, either through learning or intuitively before you can even begin purposely writing or playing music.

[SteveM]

Originally Posted by themaddog

We could get into deep discussions as to why this is, where their parents and/or "the system" failed, but regardless, it's my job to deal with - and hopefully correct - it. We are the repository for society's ills.

-MD

Tough job man. Chelsea is a pretty rough and tumble town. Keep up the good work.

[SteveM]

Originally Posted by Whoopysnorp

Also, SteveM, do you really think that the popularity of rap music is responsible for increasing violence among poor minorities, as opposed to deteriorating social conditions brought on by many years of right-wing governments cutting funding for the social services necessary to give an out to disenfranchised people?

Yes, I really do. I definately think the music affected inner city kids lifestyle decision. I'm not saying they would have been good if it hadn't happen but I think it made it worse. Alot worse. I can't really get into a psychological diatribe about it but it's also no coincidence that so many school shootings occurred at the same time in the 90s. There's no doubt certain succeptable kids are influenced by media in my mind.

In Lawrence, MA were I'm from there were always gangs but not of the same nature as you hear about in rap music. You'd get a stabbing an occasionally shooting but it was usually the people in thier twenties not in thier TEENS. It was obvious the gangs and the music coincided at the same time they started dressing that way and you started hearing about drive by shootings. They started out as wanna bes because I used to laugh at them. but you could see it coming.

Sully Erna wrote a book about growing up in Lawrence. I've never read it. But maybe I should check it out. I have a feeling though that he blows out of proportion.

[SteveM]

I just want to add to the above that I'm talking about the smaller cities. The gangs were already in the bigger cities obviously, that's were the gansta rap came from. Also, the problems coincided with the huge influx of Latinos. I hate to say but they are all mostly latino gangs.

[FALKEN]

OK, this has to stop. Music is not responsible for violence. Rap is not responsible for the decline of sound quality. I will debate this with anyone but I find it almost impossible to believe that the members of this forum actually think this. These comments are at the very best elitist, and at the very worst racist. Care to debate it?

[A Reel Person]

the Mexican gangsters would all listen to 50's & 60's doo-wop, sha-na-na-type stuff & American Graffiti era oldies. Man, they were bad!

[SteveM]

Originally Posted by FALKEN

OK, this has to stop. Music is not responsible for violence. Rap is not responsible for the decline of sound quality. I will debate this with anyone but I find it almost impossible to believe that the members of this forum actually think this. These comments are at the very best elitist, and at the very worst racist. Care to debate it?

Sure I'll debate about the violence. I do think it but I don't know how you'd get the idea that it would be racist? Do you also think that uprise in drug usage amongst teens in the late 60s to the present time wasn't influenced by the music and counter culture of that time?

[FALKEN]

Supposing that were true, since that music isn't popular nowadays, it must mean that nobody's doing drugs anymore?

Maybe it was the drugs that influenced the music, not the other way around?

Can you prove a causation or only a correlation?

[Whoopysnorp]

I have a real big problem with the idea that music can make anybody behave a certain way. Popular music can't induce anybody to commit any kind of antisocial acts they weren't going to commit anyway. Or do you suppose that Charles Manson wouldn't have done the things he did if the Beatles hadn't released Helter Skelter?

I don't know where you would obtain statistics showing what percentage of people who enjoy listening to music with lyrics depicting crimes actually go out and commit crimes, but I guarantee you it is minuscule.

[Whoopysnorp]

As usual, Frank Zappa has already made my point better than I ever could: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ISil7IHzxc

[Beck]

Originally Posted by FALKEN

OK, this has to stop. Music is not responsible for violence. Rap is not responsible for the decline of sound quality. These comments are at the very best elitist, and at the very worst racist. Care to debate it?

Of course music is not the only thing that breeds violent cultures. However, music both influences and is influenced by the culture. It sends messages, and in turn those messages and sentiments are acted upon by people, including other musicians that write more music, which in turn starts the cycle again.

Children raised in inner city environments are regularly exposed to harsh, violent music… not just the words (when you can understand them) but the attitude… degradation, disrespect, anger, hate, murder, revenge, etc. You can’t build a healthy society like that. It’s not possible.

Of course rap is part of why sound quality has declined. There was nothing to it… the early stuff sounded like it was produced on a boom box. You don’t need a super studio with all the bells and whistles to record that crap. You don’t need tools or skill so of course the quality declines. The music industry has become an industry of amateurs and that’s exactly how it sounds.

Elitists are useful since they’re the ones that preserve some semblance of culture that people will eventually run back to after the smoke clears and the fad is over. The only racism I see is when people insist I must embrace a type of music just because it came out of and is popular in the black community. Sorry, no white guilt over here. That has never worked for me.

Originally Posted by FALKEN

I will debate this with anyone but I find it almost impossible to believe that the members of this forum actually think this.

Nothing to debate... it's an observation... and it's only this member (maybe a couple others ahead of their time) thinking out loud and seeing who else is out here that is not taking the guided tour through life. You can be lead around by the nose if you like, by teachers, preachers, politicians, peers, etc, but you really miss a lot.