Do you really buy that expensive recording software?

[Fantastic_Mad]

I'm thinking about turning my home pc into a small recording console for my music and was talking to a friend about which recording software I should buy. He said, "Buy? Why spend $599.99 on that expensive software when you can download it from gnutella for free?" Then pops up the moral dilema about really paying that money to support the creator, which I have supported in the past.

[MartyMcFly]

Yeah you can try downloading the "free" software from gnutella and kazaa but usually these programs seem like they have something missing...not in their physical appearance but in their programming. I cant tell you exactly what but they always manage to fuck up in some sort of way. So they are not reliable...how would you like to work on a project for a month and then have your free software malfunction in some way making you lose all of your work...Just use these free downloads to check out which software is best for you then buy the one you like. You'll have the peice of mind to know that when the official software fucks up...atleast everyone else has the same problems

[TexRoadkill]

You can never really trust that any problems in your DAW setup aren't caused by a bad version or crack. It's not about supporting the company but paying for the company to support you.

[Trebek]

Originally posted by Fantastic_Mad
I'm thinking about turning my home pc into a small recording console for my music and was talking to a friend about which recording software I should buy. He said, "Buy? Why spend $599.99 on that expensive software when you can download it from gnutella for free?" Then pops up the moral dilema about really paying that money to support the creator, which I have supported in the past.

You don't even need a moral reason to be opposed to piracy.

Imagine how much more money software companies would spend on development if piracy didn't exist. In this way, piracy has a harmful effect on innovation.

Piracy of Logic on the PC side may have driven Emagic to sell out to Apple. In this case Piracy may have killed Logic Windows outright, and in doing so fucked over 70,000 registered users and inconvienced many more freeloaders.

Piracy necessitates higher prices for folks that do pay. I guess this is a moral reason.

Plus by buying software, you get updates, bug fixes, customer service, etc..

[mixsit]

Or, if you feel it's ok for to steal, then I don't suppose you'd mind if we downloaded some of your bank account. After all, it's just data, right?
Wayne

[M.Brane]

So where does that leave me?

Yeah it's the free version so it only does 8 tracks of audio but I'm being forced to improve my micing technique to get a good drum sound and also my mixing if I want to bounce down and open up more tracks. You can't fix garbage tracking with plug-ins, ya know?

[BrettB]

This is a difficult issue... Right now as a student I don't have enough money to buy all the programs I am using.

But TexRoadkill is right: even if you forget the moral question, a crack is never going to give you complete stability. So once I am graduated I really intend to buy some extra software.

Cracks though have the small advantage that it makes people familiar with the program. My MIDI teacher always told me Cubase is one of the most popular sequencers because of the early cracks of the program. Cracks can make you familiar about a program before you intend to buy it, and can point out the pro's and con's. I think anyone really serious with recording buys his computer software.

[shackrock]

i've tried i think every single program - warez of course.

and they all cost $300 and up to purchase.

a lot of times, they AREunstable, and sometimes not. but nevertheless - i really only downloaded them all to test them, to see if it was worth it.

for example:
logic = way to complicated
samplitude = awesome, but dont have the patience to switch
n-track = simple, easy, and now i bought it.

i think people will notice i really highly support n-track. so i bought it last year, for 50 bucks, 24-bit, and its balla.

[dachay2tnr]

So once I am graduated I really intend to buy some extra software.

C'mon, Brett, you gotta come up with something better than that. It's OK to steal because I'm poor and I'm gonna reform once I have some money?

Sorry, but that just doesn't cut it.

Wanting something you can't afford should lead to motivation, work ethic, drive, innovation, etc. etc. Not stealing.

[ColdAsh]

Originally posted by BrettB
This is a difficult issue... Right now as a student I don't have enough money to buy all the programs I am using.

Get a job

[M.Brane]

Originally posted by ColdAsh

Get a job

That's the difficult part.

[hokypokynose]

I download to check it out(I do not freeload). If I likee I buy. If not, I uninstall it before I get too pissed off. So far the only peice of software I actually liked was n-track. So I bought it and havn't used anything else since.

[charger]

Although I have used warez, having worked at an audio hardware/software manufacturer, I changed my opinion on this pretty strongly. I will say that for the most part, manufacturers are now providing better demo versions--demos that you can download and actually use (save projects, export files) for a long enough time period that you can get a pretty good idea of how they work, and if they work for you. There's not really much excuse anymore for warez, especially if you are going to be using the software to produce music.

I know music software is expensive; perhaps if it is out of your reach, you should use something that you can afford. If you can't afford to pay $599 for your main production software, perhaps it's not really worth it to you, or you are not yet at the level where you require a program that advanced. For me, as a guitarist, I never had the option to download a Les Paul, so for many years, when it wasn't as important to me, I went without.

There's always progs like FruityLoops or Orion, CoolEdit and N-track, and most major manufacturers also have more limited, less expensive versions, for people on a budget.

[veiledsaber]

It used to be that all this software was a novelty idea being propagated by those crazy Mac people. So the rest of us, while talking about how much we'd like to be able to use our computers to record projects, could only pay studios or buy our own tape machines, etc for recording at home. SO I gotta wonder: If software weren't available to pirate, what would the pirates do?

It's sort of the same question that music fans who substitute mp3 files or rips of friend's cds might consider: would you buy the cd if you couldn't get the tracks by pirating the stuff? I remember when I had time to sit around deciding which songs I liked and what albums were cool, though at the time "mp3s" didn't exist. I know people with that kind of time now, who sit around with nothing better to do than dowload files, rip cds, and burn new ones. I also know people who have more important things to do, like go to work, or find friends.

SO the answer I suggest is this: the people who are serious about recording can't afford to risk instability in their system that a cracked program might offer, since they may well be charging some broke musicians $40/hr (or whatever) to track theur stuff. They need stability, tech support, and updates, all in as reliable a fashion as possible. The rest of the clowns who pirate the stuff, as talented as they might be, are low-end hobbyists in a pro's world. When it comes right down to it, not many of the people who are willing to mess with cracks and warez are going to have the money to buy the stuff anyway, so very few sales are lost to them. If they really want to get serious about operating a project studio on their computer, and expect to bill by the hour, they're going to need to face business realities soon enough. I can't tell you how many lousy home studios I've seen (or done tracking in) where there was a list of excuses ready at every turn of the broken knobs. Statements like "I just downloded this cool crack of Cubase" always leave me questioning the integrity of the person willing to violate copyright in the same moment that they want to record potentially profitable tracks that could pay the bills by HAVING ENFORCEABLE COPYRIGHTS. They're mostly gone now. The people who have survived in the long run started out (for example) by purchasing rehab decks and boards, putting in honest long hours, and making the stuff last until they could prove they knew how to use the equipment.

Even Kevin Mitnick agreed that "there aren't any 38-year-old hackers." Kids using cracked programs and warez will come and go, and the serious players in music biz will continue to do as they have always done - succeed by being talented and hardworking, and maintaining their integrity. People who pirate software and steal equipment (the analogous "hardware pirate") won't end up on the cover of trade rags as "master engineers" anytime soon.

The guy who said he didn't have the money to buy software because he's a student has a point - not to mention he probably has the time to mess with the stuff. He pirates at his peril. In the end, he'll get serious and buy what he likes or move on to some other hobby.

Here's a real-life story to help make my point: I spent 6 days helping a group transfer tracks to ADAT from Logic Audio. I had a lot of problems, and was ultimately forced to buy an expensive piece of equipment from MOTU to make the thing work. If I had not had Emagic tech and MOTU tech support available, the project would still be wasting my time, or not happening at all. Any of you out there ever wasted a week on a tech problem? Whose money/time were you wasting? If it was someone else's, you know what I mean about stability and support - you now have a "former customer."

[wes480]

well said veliedsaber - welcome to the board by the way.

When I very first got into this...and had no hardware, I downloaded some software. but, it was always flakey...not worth it. Even now with the fully ripped ISOs or whatever - how can one trust that dongle crack. Not to mention those whores are making the dongle a must for everyone else .

But, that's also why I look at a hardware system also for the software. I don't want to go spend 1,000 on software...when say, with the Digi 001, I can get Pro Tools LE.

[ColdAsh]

Originally posted by wes480
well said veliedsaber - welcome to the board by the way.
But, that's also why I look at a hardware system also for the software. I don't want to go spend 1,000 on software...when say, with the Digi 001, I can get Pro Tools LE.

If you ask me Pro Tooles LE is over rated. Id rather have logic gold and a delta 1010 (unless u needed the ADAT but you han but a hard to do this with the delta 1010). From my experience of both products (although i used Pro Tools LE about 2 years ago so my memory is rusty) Logic gold is much better. 8 More tracks for a start, who wants to be limeted to 24 tracks these days? And i think there are better plug ins with it from what i can remember. They both handle audio editing well and logic seems to be better for midi. There are a couple of things the pro tools le does better but most of them will be cleared up in v5. A bit of the topic but my $0.02 worth

[BrettB]

hi guys,

Yeah, I know you're right to pick on me: it is not fair to use software cracks. I didn't intend the 'no money' issue to be an excuse.

Dechay, you're right about the motivation thing, and not having much money really motivates me to try to find more money to even buy several stuff. And I do purchase software, just as I purchase my hardware. But yes, I have some plug ins and a few programs I haven't paid for. I know I should be ashamed, and I really do intend to buy some extra software later, also that may seem a lame excuse.

But I follow Shackrock when he tells he uses crackz to get to know programs and buy what he think is suitable for him.
But also Charger is right when he says demo's are getiing better.

Veiledsaber also has a point: someone serious about recording buys the stuff. And I'm not serious about recording, but now I use my recording still for a home purpose (I sometims record in several studio's who have off course all the legal software), and when I expand my small setup to record others, I would definetely buy all the software I have to use.


Btw,a stupid anecdote, I know a guy who has an official version of Logic, but he runs the crack version because that one had eliminated a bug that was in his original one.

[wes480]

Well, the reason I like Pro Tools LE is because it lets you learn Pro Tools for the most part...so when you step up with the big boys on the real system....you are good and ready.

I really don't care what I have downstairs now I just want to get the the next level...low life dreamer baby

[johnhoe]

I agree with the view that one should pay for software and that you get better supported if you do. What I would challenge is a company's right to only let you have one copy of that software (by providing a dongle as you get with Logic). I would argue that this encourages even those who have bought the software to look for a cracked version of the same software so that they can work it on their laptop without unscrewing the dongle every time. Notice, this needs a crack in this case, to bypass the dongle. Some companies like Cakewalk have no copy protection whatsoever so they obviously have taken heed of this view. Also with regard to the "cracks eventually screwing up the computer" argument, I think that illegitimate software which only relies on an illegal serial number is likely to work better than software which relies on a crack, which has inserted extra programming code. So there is a clear difference here.

[charger]

ColdAsh

First of all, the latest version of Pro Tools LE supports 32 tracks. Second, I would not rather have any Windows Logic product right now, since Apple has bought emagic and is discontinuing all Windows product lines on September 30. But to each his own.

[DanielJohn]

How about this.... I got a free copy of Cakewalk when i bought my soundcard, BUT IT DOESN"T WORK WITH WIN2000!!! So I downloaded the version of cakewalk that does work with it! Is that stealing? Probably huh?
-DAN

[jdechant]

yeah the multitrack software that came with my recording card was made so it would only run on win95/98/ME... I ran win2000 and now run winXP (be damned if I'll install any win9x)... I called the company and they really didn't give a fuck that I couldn't run that software on my machine, so why should I give a fuck about them?

[M.Brane]

Originally posted by jdechant
yeah the multitrack software that came with my recording card was made so it would only run on win95/98/ME... I ran win2000 and now run winXP (be damned if I'll install any win9x)... I called the company and they really didn't give a fuck that I couldn't run that software on my machine, so why should I give a fuck about them?

Was it the company that didn't GAF or just the minimium wage earning teleflunky tech support moron?

You must have a Digi or MOTU card.

[charger]

You must have a Digi or MOTU card.

Digi now has support for XP. MOTU never had support for ANY windows platform with Digital Performer, and they never will, but I think they have another program (AudioDesk?) for Windows.

[neirbo]

As much as I'd like to take the high road and say I've never done it, it's more truthful to say it depends. I have never pirated recording software. When I was too poor for the good stuff, I used Power Tracks which cost me $50. I figure that this is still a niche market, and that even the biggest of software companies making recording software is still pretty small. For whatever reason, that makes a difference to me.

Now, when it comes to other software, such as a very popular operating system that I'll just call "Bill" to protect the innocent, I have not been so morally clean.

I also have more than my fair share of audio CDs burnt from friends. This is really the exact same issue, and I wonder how many of those us who have never pirated software have a few burnt CDs in their collection. Again, size matters to me. I have no problem burning a Chilli Peppers or Rolling Stones CD, but insist on paying for smaller names.