Pop / Rock Mastered Polished Turd - Want Some?

[Nakatira]

yup this sounds good

[PoeticIntensity]

Originally Posted by TheChikenMaster

Great mix. I dont know something about the esses in the vocals are getting to me.

Hmm... Too much sibilance? I don't have anything being de-essed, so that very well may be the case. I'll listen to it again. Thanks for the comment!

Originally Posted by Nakatira

yup this sounds good

Thanks!

[commanda]

Linux user eh? Same here. I also had problems with Soundclick, couldn't even create an account.

Gotta ask. Was this recorded/produced on Linux? if so, can we have some technical details?

Great production by the way.

Amanda

[PoeticIntensity]

Originally Posted by commanda

Linux user eh? Same here. I also had problems with Soundclick, couldn't even create an account.

Gotta ask. Was this recorded/produced on Linux? if so, can we have some technical details?

Great production by the way.

Amanda

Heh... Go Linux! Yeah.. The entire production of this was done with 100% free open-source Linux-based software.

Specs are as follows:

Hardware:
AMD Phenom-X4 (forget the model, it's the 3.0GHZ one)
4 Gigs memory
ASUS Motherboard
WD 640G Black Hard Drive
M-Audio Delta 1010 Interface
Focusrite Octopre 8-channel preamp
Audix F10,F12,F15, Shure SM57, Trion 7000, and AT2035 mics.
(if ya want more details on hardware, just lemme know)

Software:
gentoo Linux using the 2.6.31-rt patched kernel.
Ardour 2.8.2, JACK, and Jamin
Main plugins used were sc4, 4-channel parametric, and I forget the reverb, but they're all LADSPA plugins. I recently bought LinuxDSP's Stereo Reverb LV2 plugin, and would highly recommend it. Didn't use it on this project, though.

That's really it.... Unless I'm missing something obvious. Jamin was used to master the final product, plugged in as an insert in the main bus. Took about 25 channels total.

Yeah, that's about it.

Pretty cool that a production like this which, according to all the comments I've been getting, is pretty darned solid can be done on Linux with 100% free legal software... I think that's just cool.

Thanks for listening, and thanks for the inquiry!

What distro are you using?

[Chili]

Sounds great. Yeah-ah, snare and cymbals are there!! Big difference from the first time I heard your tracks. The kick sounds a little boomy to me, could just be me. But try a narrower eq setting around the kick.

cool,

[commanda]

Anyone who says you can't do this stuff on Linux needs to listen to this track!

I'm using Ubuntu 9.10 with the:
Linux ubuntu 2.6.31-9-rt #152-Ubuntu SMP PREEMPT RT Thu Oct 15 05:01:14 UTC 2009 i686 GNU/Linux
kernel.

Foxconn 45csx motherboard with an Atom 330 cpu and 2 Gig ram and sata hard drive.
Behringer UCA 202 in place of a soundcard.
Behringer MS40 monitors; Sony headphones; and a line-in to my stereo.
Zoom MRS4.
Samson CO5 condenser mic.
ART studio MP preamp.

I play rhythm guitar (of which I have several) both acoustic & electric; and try to sing.

Software; I use Audacity, Rosegarden, and a Python script called MMA (musical midi accompaniment). Think Band-in-a-box. This script parses a text file(s), and outputs a midi file.

I have installed Ardour, but haven't applied the effort to learn to drive it, yet.

Amanda

[PoeticIntensity]

Originally Posted by Chili

Sounds great. Yeah-ah, snare and cymbals are there!! Big difference from the first time I heard your tracks. The kick sounds a little boomy to me, could just be me. But try a narrower eq setting around the kick.

cool,

Thanks for the listen, Chili! I was hoping you'd comment... As far as the kick goes, I'm in awe that so many people don't think it's boomy... The kick is totally empty, and un-padded, except for the batter head, which uses a Remo Powersonic skin, which is pretty deadened by default, but still... No pillows, no blankets, no nothin' - just a kick and a mic. I'm in the process of getting an Audix D6, to see if I can beef it up a little. Right now, it's extremely EQ'ed, and each take sounds different (the Audix F10 sucks on kicks, but it's the only sub-sonic mic I have right now, and all my SM57's are being used on other drums...) I've heard *very* good things about the D6, though, so my hopes are high. Thanks for listening, and as soon as this is posted, I'm gonna go have a listen to your new song!

Originally Posted by commanda

Anyone who says you can't do this stuff on Linux needs to listen to this track!

I play rhythm guitar (of which I have several) both acoustic & electric; and try to sing.

Software; I use Audacity, Rosegarden, and a Python script called MMA (musical midi accompaniment). Think Band-in-a-box. This script parses a text file(s), and outputs a midi file.

I have installed Ardour, but haven't applied the effort to learn to drive it, yet.

Amanda

Hear - Hear, sista! I've always been a bit frustrated with the comments I get (not on HR.com) about doing audio work on a completely Linux-based system, but proof is in the pudding. Now, I just hope I can re-create the same quality of sound on my next project! I've heard from a few professional audio engineers, who have used the gamut of DAWs today, and they say that ardour is among the best non-linear audio editors out there, and it's being actively developed, too... So it's getting better all the time. So, to the nay-sayers, I say "Listen to this, and pound cats!"

Thanks for the kudos, and thanks for listening. You really need to try ardour. It doesn't do MIDI (yet), but for recording audio, it really does the job well.

Okay, I'm done ranting now.

[Chili]

Originally Posted by PoeticIntensity

As far as the kick goes, I'm in awe that so many people don't think it's boomy...

Yeah, I figured the lack of comments from others tells me it's my system. I have a sub-woofer, maybe still need to find a balance.

Nonetheless, a good song you've got there.

[PoeticIntensity]

shameless bump, to see if I can get jeffmaher to comment.

[Bulls Hit]

sorry, I'm not Jeff, but it sounds good over here

[rayc]

I'd buy it - I like pop rock & this veers into power pop which is a genre I really dig.
Yeah, the drums man, I hate to say it... they're bloody good!

[pistachio]

Sounds like good Weezer. You are killer man.

[PoeticIntensity]

Originally Posted by Bulls Hit

sorry, I'm not Jeff, but it sounds good over here

Thanks, man!

Originally Posted by rayc

I'd buy it - I like pop rock & this veers into power pop which is a genre I really dig.
Yeah, the drums man, I hate to say it... they're bloody good!

Thanks a lot, rayc! Thanks loads about the drums. Ever since I heard Greg L's drums, I'm on a quest to get them sounding as good as I possibly can. Now, I'm down to room treatment and drum tuning, because I'm confident my mics aren't the problem.

Originally Posted by pistachio

Sounds like good Weezer. You are killer man.

Hehe... Thanks for listening!

[Greg_L]

How'd you get these drum sounds, but can't seem to duplicate them on other stuff? I'm starting to suspect shenanigans!

[PoeticIntensity]

Originally Posted by Greg_L

How'd you get these drum sounds, but can't seem to duplicate them on other stuff? I'm starting to suspect shenanigans!

Well... To be perfectly honest, I worked on the EQ of these drum tracks for about 3 solid hours to the snare and kick. I've never spent that amount of time on any other drums I've done. So... Yeah... My drums sound pretty good naturally, but definitely not that good.

Hopefully someday I'll be able to get those sounding that good without all the digital trickery.

Also - Greg L. I'd be interested to know how you have your overheads set up? What configuration do you use?

[Greg_L]

I use the Recorderman setup.


One thing you gotta remember....the drums you hear on commercial recordings are generally heavily processed. Take a modern commercial kick drum sound for example; real kicks typically don't sound like that in real life. Pro studios sample replace/blend and/or use multiple mics on the kick drums and other drums. Hell, Tommy Lee uses 3 mics per tom, and still blends in triggered samples. So for us modest home recordists to come anywhere close to those pro sounds with our mediocre equipment and crappy rooms, we gotta sometimes tweak the fuck out of things. Don't fall into the purist no-digital-tweak trap. It's a noble idea, but it's not realistic in the realm we live in if you want to even think about having pro sounding drum tracks. Sure, by all means try to get the best raw sound you can with what you have. But don't be afraid to virtually twist some EQ and compressor knobs if you need to.

[PoeticIntensity]

Originally Posted by Greg_L

I use the Recorderman setup.


One thing you gotta remember....the drums you hear on commercial recordings are generally heavily processed. Take a modern commercial kick drum sound for example; real kicks typically don't sound like that in real life. Pro studios sample replace/blend and/or use multiple mics on the kick drums and other drums. Hell, Tommy Lee uses 3 mics per tom, and still blends in triggered samples. So for us modest home recordists to come anywhere close to those pro sounds with our mediocre equipment and crappy rooms, we gotta sometimes tweak the fuck out of things. Don't fall into the purist no-digital-tweak trap. It's a noble idea, but it's not realistic in the realm we live in if you want to even think about having pro sounding drum tracks. Sure, by all means try to get the best raw sound you can with what you have. But don't be afraid to virtually twist some EQ and compressor knobs if you need to.

No way.... The recorderman... Dang... I tried that once, just to give it a shot, and it sounded good... Come to think of it, I can't believe I'm not doing that now. I've got a spaced pair set up right now, and my room is treated in a very limited fashion... Heck... I'll take a picture and show ya what I've got. I'm gonna be doing a drum track for ido1957 sometime this week, so I'll try my luck at the recorderman again. Dang... Why didn't I think of using that sooner? bah... Thanks for the info, Greg. We'll see what the recorderman can do for any possible phasing I have going on using a spaced pair (not quite at the 3-to-1 rule, but I've gotta be close).

Anyway... Here's a photo of the drum mic'ing I've been using for the past year or so.

So, yeah... Thanks again for the info, Greg. If it wasn't midnight, I'd set it up and try it right now.

Oh, and as far as the "snob" thing goes... I'm only trying to get it sounding the best it can naturally, because if it sucks without filters, it'll most likely still suck with em'. I have nothing against using anything and everything to make recordings sound the absolute best they can.

[PoeticIntensity]

Man... I just don't know when to stop. I needed to be in bed hours ago.

Anyway... I got to thinking after talking about the drums, what I did exactly to that song to get the drums to sound that way, so I opened ardour up, and gave her a looksie.. Here's a breakdown for those who care.

• Toms were gated but otherwise untouched.
• Overheads were untouched, but the master had a 5db gain shelfed at 8K for sparkle.
• Snare had a 7db increase in the 1.3k region with a Q of 1.5
• Kick was insane... It was gated, compressed, and a 4-pole parametric on it with 3 of the 4 poles being at -20dbs, and the one left at +7.6db (not sure of the HZ of the poles... I'm tired)... The kick, without filters is completely unrecognizable. I recorded the kick with an Audix F-12. Horrid kick mic.

So yeah... Lotsa knob turning going on in this one, for sure. I need more material so I can tweak the settings for my 4041's and D6.

I'm going to bed now.

[Greg_L]

Originally Posted by PoeticIntensity

No way.... The recorderman... Dang... I tried that once, just to give it a shot, and it sounded good... Come to think of it, I can't believe I'm not doing that now. I've got a spaced pair set up right now, and my room is treated in a very limited fashion... Heck... I'll take a picture and show ya what I've got. I'm gonna be doing a drum track for ido1957 sometime this week, so I'll try my luck at the recorderman again. Dang... Why didn't I think of using that sooner? bah... Thanks for the info, Greg. We'll see what the recorderman can do for any possible phasing I have going on using a spaced pair (not quite at the 3-to-1 rule, but I've gotta be close).

Anyway... Here's a photo of the drum mic'ing I've been using for the past year or so.

So, yeah... Thanks again for the info, Greg. If it wasn't midnight, I'd set it up and try it right now.

Oh, and as far as the "snob" thing goes... I'm only trying to get it sounding the best it can naturally, because if it sucks without filters, it'll most likely still suck with em'. I have nothing against using anything and everything to make recordings sound the absolute best they can.

I'm not a room expert, so take that into consideration, but you've got some weirdness going on in that room. First of all, those foam pads on the wall are doing nothing. Secondly, I can't really tell from that pic, but it looks like your overheads are different distances from the snare and kick. That can introduce phase problems. Spaced pair still needs to be set up properly. Thirdly, get those monitors and desk out of the corner. That's a bad, bad, mixing position.

[sikter]

This is good, very good I mean.
Left and right guitar are making a perfect stereo picture. It's just perfect.
Well done!

[laser]

Hell of a job. If I was do do anything different I would turn the whole songs high ends up a very little and justs ee what that does. It might not work though. What equipment do you use as far as interface and software?

[PoeticIntensity]

Originally Posted by Greg_L

I'm not a room expert, so take that into consideration, but you've got some weirdness going on in that room. First of all, those foam pads on the wall are doing nothing. Secondly, I can't really tell from that pic, but it looks like your overheads are different distances from the snare and kick. That can introduce phase problems. Spaced pair still needs to be set up properly. Thirdly, get those monitors and desk out of the corner. That's a bad, bad, mixing position.

Oh yes.... Weirdness abounds, for sure. No doubt. I'll have to disagree with you on one thing, though. Foam pads do nothing? Have you ever tried it? You should hear recordings I've done without them. There is no question whatsoever that, although they're far from perfect, those foam pads are doing far from nothing. I'm not sure why I've heard this same compliant from from quite a few people, but it's unmistakable. I have 2 or 3 recordings without foam pads, and there's no doubt that those foam pads reduce loads of high-frequency reflections.

Anyway... The rest I totally agree with. Spaced pair are not equidistant from snare / bass (not sure why I didn't think of that before), and I have to correct after-the-fact for phasing. And yes, I need to move the mixing station out of the corner. Great ideas, bro.

Oh.. and as far as the foam padding goes, I forgot that I blogged about the difference... and have a recording to prove it. First part of that recording is done without treatment. 2nd part *only* the treatment of the room was changed.

[Greg_L]

Maybe your room is so bad that anything is better than nothing? I dunno. I do hear a difference in your clip. Was everything exactly the same except for the foam? Nothing changed with the drums, mics, or processing? I've used foam before and it did nothing for me, and there's an assload of scientific and practical evidence that says the same. I didn't notice any difference in my room or practice space until I used actual traps and mid/high absorbers.

[PoeticIntensity]

Originally Posted by Greg_L

Maybe your room is so bad that anything is better than nothing? I dunno. I do hear a difference in your clip. Was everything exactly the same except for the foam? Nothing changed with the drums, mics, or processing?

Yeah, dude... My room is an exact parallelogram. It's as rectangular as they get. It *sucks* for recording. Before I put the foam in, I could walk to the center of the room, clap my hands, and hear 10-20 distinct reflections. No closets, no furniture, no shelves - nothing but 4 walls, a mixing station, and musical instruments.

Also, yeah... I did that test precisely to actually see if foam would make any difference, so I set up my drums and mics, pushed the record button, played for a bit, then spent a couple hours putting up the foam - didn't touch mics, drums, or software, and when I was done, sat back down and played again for a few seconds. Nothing was touched between the two.

I've also heard from multiple sources that foam doesn't do jack, and am left dumbfounded. I have no idea why there is such a drastic change in the quality of my room's acoustics with nothing but foam, but believe me. It has helped TONS. I won't be taking it down anytime soon, and if I do, it'll be because I have enough dough to buy the real stuff.

So... yeah... Go figure. If you're interested, here's the blog post associated with the audio clip. Forgive the complete lack of any resemblance of good mic positioning techniques in the photos.

[grimtraveller]

I like the song....and listening to your test clip, a difference can definitely be heard. The sound in the second part is more muffled.....or rather, the decay and reverberation is much less.
It's interesting to me that so many people praised your mix and drum sound but from what I've been reading and the opinions of many who really know their stuff, your foam pad set up and mix position are kind of a no - no. It tends to suggest that actually, experimentation is the key and there are now so many variables that with some tweaking here and there, there's possibly lots that can work. At the risk of sounding like a nub, perhaps beauty really is in the eye (ear) of the beholder.