recording acoustic grand pianos

[zippydw]

First I am no pro at recording. Not even a competent hobbyist.

Now. Whenever I record an acoustic piano, particularly grands, the sound always sounds 'warbley' or has an odd tremolo even if it is in good tuning. Has anyone had any experience in getting good quality rendition of piano?

I have a project where I want to record a Yamaha Grand. I plan to use a Fostex MR 8-markII digital recorder.

Any advice appreciated

[Massive Master]

There are a lot (a LOT) of variables when recording piano -- Some additional info would help.

1) Your current selection of available mics/preamps/etc.

2) The intended recording space is (large, small, a living room, a gymnasium, live, dead, well-treated, etc., etc.)...

3) The intention of the recording itself is (solo intimate, solo 'live,' ensemble intimate, jazz, etc., etc., etc.).

In other words, the 'subject matter' is going to dictate what the better techniques would be. In many cases, a simple stereo pair of SDC omnis, maybe a foot apart and six feet away just above the lid-line on the short stick of a C7 in a good (or at least 'applicable') space is going to be a fine starting point. If you want more hammer for a very "close up" and intimate sound, adding a LDD (on a piece of foam please...) off-axis, taped right over the third or fourth harp hole (from the high end), pointed toward the center of the hammer line will give you that option (you may need to time-align the resulting tracks). Pan the omnis wide and center the LDD and you're off to the races.

Other times, that particular technique will fall flat - Not what I'd want for a jazz ensemble or a "My Funny Valentine" recording - in which case, a pair of SDC's about a foot out from the hammer line and 8 inches above the harp cutting the line in thirds would be a better starting point.

It's a 'what have you got vs. what are you going for' thing...

[zippydw]

OK MM. I understand what you are doing with the two mike arrangement. I am not clear on the mike location. 6 feet away from the lid line?

They are being placed at the bottom of the case above the lid. Is that what you intended?

[Jim Lad]

I'd question the use of the Fostex MR 8-mark-II digital recorder, zippydw.
I bought one for my father-in-law for its simplicity rather than quality.
His is noisy and the preamps are weak. Not the best. Add to that you will be recording at 16bit. I think you may be handicapping yourself with that choice.

[zippydw]

I purchased the Fostex for pretty much the reason you mentioned. I am learning a new instrument in the traditional Irish style and am supposed to record myself from time-to-time for self audit purposes.

I find it a bit 'clunky' to use, but the price was not bad.

I know this is a bit off topic, but do you have suggestions on a better machine that won't require a second mortgage on the farm? ;-)

[Massive Master]

Originally Posted by zippydw

OK MM. I understand what you are doing with the two mike arrangement. I am not clear on the mike location. 6 feet away from the lid line?

They are being placed at the bottom of the case above the lid. Is that what you intended?

I mean if you draw an imaginary line at the same angle as the lid, you'd position just above that line (though angled slightly downward, towards the opening).

[halfred]

Originally Posted by zippydw

First I am no pro at recording. Not even a competent hobbyist.

Now. Whenever I record an acoustic piano, particularly grands, the sound always sounds 'warbley' or has an odd tremolo even if it is in good tuning. Has anyone had any experience in getting good quality rendition of piano?

I have a project where I want to record a Yamaha Grand. I plan to use a Fostex MR 8-markII digital recorder.

Any advice appreciated

As mentioned you'll need to discribe your recording situation in detail. I started getting information from this forum about 2 months ago in my quest to make a great recording of myself playing my acoustic grand in my living room. You'll learn a lot by checking out all my trials and tribulations--just bring up all the posts by "Halfred"---

[zippydw]

Thanks MM. I think I understand how you are doing that. I will give it a shot.

Halfred- I actually have a choice on environments. Like you, I have a grand in my living room, but live on a corner lot, so even in the wee hours, there tends to be low frequency rumble from traffic. Which brings my to my church piano. Very nice 10 year old yamaha 7 foot. Well maintained and frequently tuned.

Space is a large modern church, pretty live acoustics.. Piano is on carpet, but next to a brick wall. Like I said very live space, long echo.

That's why I am leaning towards MM's second suggestion as a starting point. It should keep the mikes close to the harp. However, with grands, it doesn't exploit the sound 'development' as it were if the mikes were some feet away as in his first suggestion. But the church has the acoustics of a big marble tomb.

Mikes. I have an immediate choice of Shure SM58, Sure SM57 and AKG 770. Doesn't mean I can't find others. These have actually worked on recording guitars and other instruments pretty well. My sense is the SM58 may be a better bet to start.

Thoughts?