writer's block on chord prgressions

[maryslittlesecret]

Hi, all. I've been writing for 15+ years now and am starting to feel like I'm using the same chord progressions, especially for choruses, over and over again (can't escape the grasp of the I to mVI).

Any thoughts, reference, resources on how to break this slump or place to find some fresh ideas? Let me know. Peace!

J

P.S. It's probably worth mentioning that I'm writing in a 'heavy rock' style, but still with enough melody to warrant a developing harmony...

[Krakit]

As an exersize, try writing in the style of Schoenberg.

Using his 12 tone system, write a melody that dosen't repeat any notes until all 12 notes have been played.

That should get you thinking outside the box.



Carl

[sackbutcharlie]

I like the 12-tone idea!

Another idea may be to listen and learn a few tunes in a very different style. If you are used to rock, learn a few jazz standards. You will find the ii-V-I and iii-VI-ii-V-I progressions can be useful in a rock setting.

There is a great fake book actually called "The Real Book" that has lead sheets for a large number of standard jazz tunes.

I come from a jazz background and was stuck in a rut. I started listening to the local country station for a different perspective. It really helped me to not feel compelled to use more complex chord changes than I needed to get the point across. It also helped me to try some different approaches to lyrics.

[mrx]

Originally posted by sackbutcharlie

I come from a jazz background and was stuck in a rut. I started listening to the local country station for a different perspective. It really helped me to not feel compelled to use more complex chord changes than I needed to get the point across. It also helped me to try some different approaches to lyrics.

Country is a great place to look. Coming from a rock background I got hung up on "key", using open strings, etc. (Going through a Rush song book learning parts, the exact chords seemed sacred - "It's an 'A' chord in 'D' - not a 'V'!!!")

The only thing that matters in country is the vocalist, so a capo is a requirement for playing those tunes. What's been an interesting discovery is the sheer number and variety of tunes that can be composed using nothing more (and often less) than 'G','C','D', and 'Em'. It doesn't always 'click' when the key is 'Bb' or 'Eb', etc., that a tune is still G/C/D/Em... (I hope that makes sense... I/IV/V/vi)

So in addition to trying some of those Jazz progressions, try using even fewer changes - make something extra happen on the 'I' instead of jumping to the 'vi'.

[Garry Sharp]

In addition to the excellent advice so far, you could try using descending chords over a narrow range (no more than IV or V to I, or I to V or IV) flipping from maj to min to suit the key and mixing up the rate of descent, varying from say half a bar to two bars per chord.

Works well with a groove driven bass line.

[Tapehead]

Really good question. One trick I use is to experiment with different tunings--that can open up a whole new sound and introduce chords that you might not be able to identify but sound great.

[Tapehead]

.

[lion_tone]

What I would try is taking the melody, that normally goes over the chords...and try using alternate chords with the same melody in it. Maybe chords like bVII/7 and IV-


Also try taking Diatonic chords.....Cmaj, Dmin. Emin, Fmaj, Gmaj, Amin, Bmin7b5...and lead to them using a dom7th a fourth below....

G7 to Cmaj, A7 to Dmin, B7 to Emin, C7 to Fmaj, D7 to Gmaj, E7 to Amin, F#7 to Bmin7b5 (Bach Chorals)


This can lead to some very sophisticated, yet melodic outcomes.....

[Dom Franco]

Try writing a song on a keyboard... even a simple 3 note chord on a piano then add a bass line decending or ascending as you move to the next chord will give you a totally different feel than guitar chords strumming.

Also try using chords built on alternate bass notes for example:

D/F# G/A E/G# B/A Much easier to find and play on a keyboard but then easy to transfer to guitar and you will be playing new things you never thought of.


DOM

[dragonworks]

Get a chord book if needed, find a chord you never use and write a tune around it.

[maryslittlesecret]

Great advice, guys. Thanks for the help.

J

[12Kevin]

I'd guess from your posts you tend to build your melodies from chord progressions. Which is common and useful practice. But to break the patterns, you might try creating a melody first.

Practically, if notating it on paper isn't your method, just record it onto a cassette or your PC. Then work up your accompaniment by playing along.

If you've never tried this, it may seem excruciatingly awkward. But it will force you to think in a new musical ways.

It will also help you break lyrical patterns and cliches that build up in the brain of any long-time artist.

Peace and love,
12K

[groovemonkee]

There's been a lot of really excellent ideas posted here! So here's my attempt....

Try reharmonizing the melody after it's finished and you've arranged it with your cliche chords. That is, pick a spot in the melody where you'd like to try something different. Then try some chord substitutions:


1. Diatonic: say you're in C major and keep going back to Am (vi) - try another chord with A in it (eg. Dm).

2. try 'parallel' substitutions. For example, if you're in the key of C, use some chords from C minor (eg. Fm or Gm).

The first step, IMO, is to determine the note in the melody at the point you're making a substitution. Then pick a substitute chord with the melody note in it.

[It's easier if you write out the melody first so you know what notes you have to work with in each measure.]

For example, if you're in the key of C, and the melody has an A note and you're sick of Am, try a Dm (D-F-A). Try Bm7(flat5) (B-D-F-A) or Bm7 (B-D-F#-A) or A (A-C#-E).

If the melody note is an F, try an Fm or a Dm.


Some standard substitutions:

Minor key: change v to V (eg. Gm to G in key of C minor)

Major Key: change IV to iv (F to Fm in key of C)
IV for ii (F for Bm(flat5) or Bdim, etc.)
vii for V (Bm(flat5) for G in key of C)
iii for V (eg. Em for G in key of C- this resolves to C very well because the B is 1/2 step from C)

(sorry for all the parentheses)

[jonhall5446]

Capo

[glynb]

It's not the chords. It's you.
A songwriter whose inspired can write a new song with C, F & G, no problem.

Take a break from songwriting for three months. Do other things. Forget about your instrument. Clear your mind. Listen to other types of music. Listen to no music. Read books. See movies. Relax.


Then pick up the instrument again (however long it takes, 6 months, a year) and see what happens. With any look you won't be able to get the new song ideas down quickly enough!

I put my guitar away from '92 until 2000. Now I can't stop writing and even if I did I have a backlogue of ideas to keep me going for ages! Worked for me!

[Scriabin]

All of these suggestions are good but the easiest solution to creating memorable fresh sounding music is this:

Compose without your instrument

Go outside for a walk and start humming a melody. Do not constrain yourself to anything. Just allow it come out naturally. Burt Bacharach composed most of his music including "what the world needs now" using this method.

By doing this you will stop falling into overused patterns. Your music will not be limited to your instrumental ability. I use it almost exclusively when writing songs.

[glynb]

Totaly agree. Go for a long walk and start to think about a song, get a word or phrase or idea, by the time the walks ended you may have the bones, then you can pick up the instrument and try to flesh it out.

I've come up with several songs this way.

I guess what you mind does is jumble up snippets and phrases from other songs you've heard and hopefully creates something new, without sitting with the instrument and being bound by 'accepted' chord patters.

[the Ozlee]

There are enough ideas in this thread you shouldn't have any problems breaking new ground. I espically agree with the alternate tuning for the guitar and using the piano or any other instrument that you do not normally use.

Something that comes to mind about your writing habits is that this progression is probably a good fit for your vocal range or dynamics. If you haven't already considered it try doing some vocal excersizes to strengthen or condition your voice. Doing this, while it may not sound like it, could be the key to unlocking your talent more than you think.

Just a thought, Ozlee

P.S. One of the best threads I've read.

[chazba]

Guitar is the coolest instrument of all but there are some issues with it . One is the tendency that we develop toward "guitarisms"
Guitarisms are simply using the chords, scales and whatever that fall easily to the hand. You could think of them as guitar cliche's. For example, playing everything in # keys (G,D,A,E). One of the ways I have discovered to get past this is to re-learn songs in Eb, Bb, C# etc, to put the left hand into unfamiliar positions. Of course, you NEVER use a capo. That's a gimick used by the talent-challenged to cover for inability to play the whole instrument. But I digress... If you try this you may find that different chord patterns will emerge, due to the "out-da-box" feeling. I could go into a long rap about neuro-muscular memoryand synaptic reflexive responses, but that's not the point. The point is to try something different to "break the spell' of the familiar and easy.

writeon...chazba

[jfrog]

Originally posted by chazba
Guitar is the coolest instrument of all but there are some issues with it . One is the tendency that we develop toward "guitarisms"
Guitarisms are simply using the chords, scales and whatever that fall easily to the hand. You could think of them as guitar cliche's. For example, playing everything in # keys (G,D,A,E). One of the ways I have discovered to get past this is to re-learn songs in Eb, Bb, C# etc, to put the left hand into unfamiliar positions. Of course, you NEVER use a capo. That's a gimick used by the talent-challenged to cover for inability to play the whole instrument. But I digress... If you try this you may find that different chord patterns will emerge, due to the "out-da-box" feeling. I could go into a long rap about neuro-muscular memoryand synaptic reflexive responses, but that's not the point. The point is to try something different to "break the spell' of the familiar and easy.

writeon...chazba

Great point about 'guitarisms'....It IS easy to fall into the same easy grooves of playing. Interesting point about capos...playing with a capo is a good way to hear things that are less familar while still retaining fingering you're used to - which can be inspiring in it's own way. Also capos are more than gimmicks used by the "talent-challenged" they give the guitarists the ability to get that open string ring sound in other keys.

[Chill]

Originally Posted by maryslittlesecret

starting to feel like I'm using the same chord progressions, especially for choruses, over and over again (can't escape the grasp of the I to mVI).

Check out some Queens of the Stone Age and Kyuss' Circus Leaves Town and Sky Valley...mostly power chords but done well and not (too) dependent on the pentatonic minor scale. thefade.net has most of the tabs.

For heavy rock, try the various combinations/riffs w/ I, iii, IV, dim V. It's one of my faves. And try sharping/flatting intervals during the riff/progression for a non-traditional sound, e.g. I, iii, III, VII (F#, A, Bb, then low E)...taken from QOTSA's How to Handle a Rope but arranged for non-C tuning, or Black Sabbath with I, V, dim V.

[rjt]

There are a couple of things that I do:

I write a lot in minor keys (mostly instrumental music for piano), so I thing about the same song in a major key.... really shakes things up

This sounds dumb, but I don't try to write perfectly when I'm stuck (of course I have the extremely rare flash when I sit down and a song just pours out). My point is, that I often say, okay here's a C, A minor goes good with that..... after a while of being stuck I just start to hit chords... hmmm, went from C to Eb, what could come next. The results are often terrible.... but I occasionally hit the "happy accident" in which something I never would have thought of, works pretty well.

As an aside, the piano has the same pianoisms as the guitar. There are certain notes and chords and runs that seem to feel better under the fingers. It takes some work to break out of that.

Regarding other instruments.... I compose pretty soft "pretty" piano music. When I sit down in the studio with synths, the music is very different. So that helps the rut too.

Great thread.

Take Care

[lykwydchykyn]

When I was fairly young songwriter, I challenged myself to use a new technique with every song I wrote. It might be a chord or chord quality I'd never used, a wierd scale, an odd meter, nonstandard structure, a strange sound, etc. I avoided diatonic harmony like the plague; I don't think there was a V-I in any of the songs I wrote for several years.
After a while I joined a pop band, and I was increasingly called upon to be more orthodox in my writing. Eventually I learned the raw power of some of the standard chord progressions out there, and of diatonic harmony in general.

I've kind of hit a middle road now, because I got away from focussing on the chords. It's to easy to get into making songs chord-chord-chord-chord without any sense of flow. I concentrate on the flow, on the feel, and on underscoring melodies. Not just the vocal melody, either -- countermelodies, harmonies, solos, etc.

Most of what I write now revolves around conventional progressions with some well-placed "twists". For example, I did a song not too long ago where the last line of the chorus did a very typical C-G/B-Am-G-F-G-C. But I switched out the G after the Am to a D7/F#. It worked out really well, kind of underscored the lyric appropriately. On another song I was ending it C-Dm-F-G-C. But instead of that last G I used Abmaj7, and instead of holding the last C for two bars I did a little riff of C-Eb6-Dm7-C (note that all 3 chords contain a C, which was the melody note). There's lot of cool little twists you can do like that to spice up bland chord progressions if your ear is getting tired of G-C-D. I used to feel bad that I didn't like simple progressions, like I was "being a musician" about it. But I've come to realize that that's just my set of tastes and it makes me the artist I am.

[ecktronic]

Originally Posted by maryslittlesecret

Hi, all. I've been writing for 15+ years now and am starting to feel like I'm using the same chord progressions, especially for choruses, over and over again (can't escape the grasp of the I to mVI).

Any thoughts, reference, resources on how to break this slump or place to find some fresh ideas? Let me know. Peace!

J

P.S. It's probably worth mentioning that I'm writing in a 'heavy rock' style, but still with enough melody to warrant a developing harmony...

Well i am in the same boat. I am writing songs of the same style roughly. If it is for choruses try and find new rythyms rather than just new chorrd progressions. For instance use 7 chords rather than the usual 4 chords. And try holding the length of certain chords for different amounts of bars. I think every single 4 chord chorus progression has already been used in some type of music, so it is time to progress to new ways of playing progressions. Another one to try is keeping a simple chord progression but concentrating on the higher notes of the chords. Try and use the same higher notes at points with different root notes. THis gives the ilussion to the listener that the chord progresion is different and fresh until the listener really listens to the tune critically. Hope i have been of a help to a fellow rocker and that some of this makes sense to you. write back if you wish if you want me to try to explain more my ideas. chou.