ibleedburgundy
The Anti-Lambo
Somebody was ripping on an ART TOOB pre. Anyway, I don't think it has to be specific to these two threads. It hasn't been happening much lately but Behringer used to be a relentless target around here.
Gear Shaming
- Thread starter Pinky
- Start date
Somebody was ripping on an ART TOOB pre. Anyway, I don't think it has to be specific to these two threads. It hasn't been happening much lately but Behringer used to be a relentless target around here.
Bill L
Massivdonian
Behringer was a target because they blatantly and unabashedly re engineered many other peoples products (ie Mackie boards). Whenever they purchased Midas is when they (apparently) decided to make their own products with quality, as well as budget, in mind. They almost single handedly brought digital boards into widespread use with the X32. The fact is, at some point they decided to be a real player in pro audio and have made an impact. Previous they were content to rip off others designs, skimp on the quality (included tech support which used to be atrocious) and rake in as much $ as they could. It appears Harbinger has taken over that end of the market and Behringer is happily competing with some of the big boys.
I have a few Behringer pieces around (an XR 18 board, 2 patch bays, Bass V-amp, EQ pedal and PA speakers and monitors). I use some, mostly out of necessity. I don't use some because many times they are not appropriate for what I'm doing or I have something else that will do better.
-Please note, all of the above is my opinion.
Farview
Well-known member
Kind of. He was ripping on his own ART preamp.
That's not true. In the grand scheme of things, yes, a good song is ideal. If you're totally solo and your mixes suck, you better hope your song is good enough to get past the sucky mix. But is this home producing? Home recording? Home songwriting? Home mixing? It's all of the above for some people. It depends on what hat or combination of hats you're wearing. I record other people somewhat regularly. I don't make a "job" out of it, but I got jobs to do if I want them. I couldn't care less about their shitty songs. My paid job is to record their shitty song well and give them a tangible product that they can sell, give away, whatever. It's not up to me to determine if their song is good or not. Even if they ask, I usually plead the fifth. It's the same with most guys I know that record other people. When you're paid to capture someone's thing, then that's what you do. We don't go around worrying if these people's songs are good or not.
jimmys69
MOODerator
Cool man. But I would say that there is a level of 'who the fuck cares' the makes a big difference as well. I personally try to stay away from mixing/Fuck dare I say producing a shitty song or musician. But the fact that I do give a shit taking on a project means that I will be making suggestions and actually using my personal experience to benefit the recording. I don't make a living off or recording crap and do not hang out at high schools or colleges looking for business in my studio. I do it because I enjoy it and only work with musicians who also have vested interest in their music and don't suck. But then who am I to decide what sucks? I suppose I have my own opinions there...
Mostly I record bands that I have known for years. Mixed some full projects for members here that likely nobody knows. And there is likely a reason that they don't hang out here.... There does seem to be a dividing point where musicians decide it is better for them to hire someone as opposed to mixing/learning for themselves. They don't share because they don't care to take the time to learn or wish to only write and play. That is fine with me. The fact that I do not have rights to most of the products I work with is why you don't see me posting in the Clinic much. Even if I play on them, they are not mine to share and ask opinions about.
Ok, I just derailed this thread talking about myself. Sorry...
Self imposed infraction....
I pick and choose who I work with too. My main criteria is that they're cool dudes and they have music that I can deal with without having to get fucked up to make it through. I do give input on recording related things and tones...like I'll tell the drummer to tune his shit better or the guitar player his tone is garbage for recording, but I'm not trying to rearrange or rewrite anyone's songs. I draw a line between technical stuff and subjective nonsense. I think it's ridiculous, in here too, how people wanna give songwriting feedback as if they're qualified to have anything to say. It's equally ridiculous to me that anyone would take that advice. But it is what it is. Some people's intentions are good and think they're helping or getting help. I avoid songwriting critiques and just stick with the technical stuff in real life and internet life.
Music forums are particularly subjective based on your perceived reputation. There is no good or bad. It's just who likes you or not. Your internet friends always like your stuff. Your internet enemies will think anything you do is shit. It's directly proportional.
Nola
Well-known member
Oh, yeah, agree... anyone doing this professionally would benefit from top gear.
Subjective, true. But complimenting or criticizing based on whether you like the creator of the song? Not me. Anybody who asks my opinion of a song or mix is going to get just that, friend or not. That's what I give and what I expect.
If any of that is true then you're in the minority.
rob aylestone
Moderator
I'm often in the position of being asked opinions on some of the forums I inhabit. One consists of very protective parents al pushing their talented (or not so) kids. All the reviews are gushing and 10% deserve it. I am honest. They hate me.
When I was teaching my students 16-22 knew that if they asked me, I'd answer honestly. Does my bum look big in this Abba costume? Yes, massive! cue instant crying and screeching. One term in and they ask because they genuinely want an opinion. On this forum, I suspect most people who ask for opinions are merely seeking confirmation of what they already think.
When I was teaching my students 16-22 knew that if they asked me, I'd answer honestly. Does my bum look big in this Abba costume? Yes, massive! cue instant crying and screeching. One term in and they ask because they genuinely want an opinion. On this forum, I suspect most people who ask for opinions are merely seeking confirmation of what they already think.
Yes, seems that way.
ibleedburgundy
The Anti-Lambo
Seems to me anything other than this would undermine the purpose of a mixing clinic.
If someone points out all the flaws in your recordings, they have done you a favor.
Even if their own mixes are massively flawed and their listening environment is garbage?
Anyway, the original tangential point was about songwriting, not mixing.
fuzzsniffvoyage
Well-known member
The most important thing I've learned from this site is, technique is THE most important quality in a engineer. The performance and mic placement is everything. You get those 2 thing right, and everything else will be all good. And my Tascam US-1800 and my Carvin amp was recommended by users of this forum, and I love this gear, not that I have much experience with anything else. I also know that a lot of guys around here love Epiphone, (myself included).
ibleedburgundy
The Anti-Lambo
Well no, the statement assumes they are actual flaws. If the advice is bad, all you have to do is listen to the quality of their mixes and value their opinion accordingly - which is easy enough.
Farview
Well-known member
I never try to make suggestions about the songwriting, but I will point out parts where things get a little dull for a bar. So I suggest putting something there to keep the interest up. (A short lead, singer screaming "yea!", that sort of thing)
But that is more production than songwriting.
I will.also suggest the instrument arrangements, in order to get an exciting stereo image. Like having the guy playing the chord bed double his part to pan wide, while the guy playing this little melody thing only plays it once to be panned center. Again, that's more production.
I will, of course play with their tones. But I always had the guitarist in the control room and the cabinet somewhere else, so the guitarist would here what was being recorded, instead of getting distracted by what it sounded like in the room.
But that is more production than songwriting.
I will.also suggest the instrument arrangements, in order to get an exciting stereo image. Like having the guy playing the chord bed double his part to pan wide, while the guy playing this little melody thing only plays it once to be panned center. Again, that's more production.
I will, of course play with their tones. But I always had the guitarist in the control room and the cabinet somewhere else, so the guitarist would here what was being recorded, instead of getting distracted by what it sounded like in the room.
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That's one thing I ride the fence about. I like realism and feedback, so I tend to prefer myself or the guitar player in the room with a screaming amp. But sometimes it's just too much and they get separated.