PC question

[minerman]

Hey everyone,
So, my 6 year old pc finally died. We had a storm with a quick power flick, & it apparently fried the power supply & motherboard. I didn't realize it had gotten the motherboard until I saw a couple bulging/leaking caps (after spending about $50 & installing a new power supply)...I can't complain because the pc had ran for over 6 years, & I absolutely pushed it to it's limits on a daily basis...

I'm in the process of finding another computer because I don't want to keep throwing $$$ at the old one because there's a good chance that something else is fried along with the motherboard...

So, my first question is, does a good graphics card make a difference in a daw machine's performance??? I know the better/faster processor & as much RAM possible is always the way to go, but, does a better graphics card make a big difference for daw work???

Second, my last pc was an AMD machine, & IMHO was pretty good. I've read that the Intel pc's absolutely smoke the AMD's, but they're quite a bit higher in price, so is the price difference between Intel & AMD actually worth the $$$???


I'd thought about trying to replace the motherboard on the old pc, but I'm totally green about this. I did replace the power supply, but that's really nothing IMO. Putting a motherboard in, swapping a processor might be a real challenge for me, as I have zero experience, & would honestly be afraid I'd destroy the new parts in the process...

FWIW, I do use a lot of plug-ins & virtual instruments in my projects, but again, I'm not sure about the graphic card thing...

Any help/info would be greatly appreciated...

 

[Chili]

For DAW and audio, you don't need an expensive graphics card. It won't make much of a difference. If you ever want to do video, a good computer with a good graphics card helps a lot.

You can replace the mobo, cpu and memory and continue to use the same case, psu, dvd drive and maybe the hard drives. Might be able to save some money.

I recently bought an old workstation from a refurbish company. They custom built it for me by removing a lot of the components I didn't need: graphics card, hard drives, O/S. I got a dual cpu workstation for a little over $500!!!

https://tekboost.com/dell-t5500-2x-x5570-4c-2-93ghz-24gb-1tb-dual-dvi-875w/

These guys are local to me so I was able to save on shipping, too.
Anyway, just an idea.

 

[Steenamaroo]

Hey everyone,
So, my 6 year old pc finally died. We had a storm with a quick power flick, & it apparently fried the power supply & motherboard. I didn't realize it had gotten the motherboard until I saw a couple bulging/leaking caps (after spending about $50 & installing a new power supply)...I can't complain because the pc had ran for over 6 years, & I absolutely pushed it to it's limits on a daily basis...

I'm in the process of finding another computer because I don't want to keep throwing $$$ at the old one because there's a good chance that something else is fried along with the motherboard...

So, my first question is, does a good graphics card make a difference in a daw machine's performance??? I know the better/faster processor & as much RAM possible is always the way to go, but, does a better graphics card make a big difference for daw work???

Second, my last pc was an AMD machine, & IMHO was pretty good. I've read that the Intel pc's absolutely smoke the AMD's, but they're quite a bit higher in price, so is the price difference between Intel & AMD actually worth the $$$???


I'd thought about trying to replace the motherboard on the old pc, but I'm totally green about this. I did replace the power supply, but that's really nothing IMO. Putting a motherboard in, swapping a processor might be a real challenge for me, as I have zero experience, & would honestly be afraid I'd destroy the new parts in the process...

FWIW, I do use a lot of plug-ins & virtual instruments in my projects, but again, I'm not sure about the graphic card thing...

Any help/info would be greatly appreciated...

Hey man,

If the machine was working well and powerful enough for your needs, I'd replace the motherboard only, especially since you paid to replace the PSU already.

Out of interest, have you tested the MOBO with new power supply.
On a 6yr old mobo it's almost certain that those caps were bulging already and nothing to do with the storm.
That said, budging caps are never good so I'd replace the board either way.

As Chili says, GPU doesn't really matter much for audio work. Video is a different story.


Fitting a mobo/cpu etc is easy if you know what to do and what not to do.
With a few pointers from experienced guys here there's no reason you couldn't do it on your own in 5 mins.

Intel/AMD is one of those questions.
I guess the bottom line is they are both HUGE companies and they both make products which could/would serve you well.
When buying, it's all about knowing and understanding the specs of the chip.
For every chip from one company there'll an equivalent from the other company.

 

[minerman]

Thanks guys,
I did try the pc with a new power supply & same thing, won't start. The fans do turn with the new power supply, so I think it's good (new power supply)...

I've found a pretty good deal on an i7, 16gb, Windows 7 machine that I'll most likely buy in the next day or so. Should be a good machine, it's actually what I wanted when I bought the AMD, but couldn't swing the price...

And most likely, I'll use the old pc as a re-build project, & if I get it running, I'll have a backup/spare...

Thanks again guys!!!

 

[ecc83]

Hi Minerman, although an electronics tech I knew jack about computers but have now built 3 from scratch and swapped HDDs on even more and done many XP installs, about 4 W7 boots and one W10 install...There are ALWAYS ISSUES! But the good news is that they generally get resolved in a few days especially with help from the guys here, SoS.com and tech support on the web.

Number one, basic must have. A working computer as a means to investigate any problems you might encounter with the build.

Since your main PC is sorted there is perhaps less pressure on building the spare? I would look for deals on the internet that include MOBO and CPU as I for one am not PC cute enough to marry the right bits! Memory is (AFAIK?) pretty universal these days? If you have a couple of gigs spare, use those for the initial build then shop around for more.

The busted machine will have the MS license code on its side, W7? You should be able to use that code to download a copy of W7 from Msoft and burn it to a disc (get ImageBurn from Ninite.com) . I strongly suggest that when you get W7 to run and Ms offer you W10 that you take them up on the offer. My experience of W10 is very limited and I do not like it (but then I still shed a tear for the loss of XP!) but it IS the way forward and you don't want to HAVE re install in 2 or 3 years time.

Another strong recommendation is to get an SSD for the re build. I have a Crucial 240G SSD in my latest build and it boots to password in 40 seconds or so and the PC seems quicker generally than with the old spinner drive. Again, even if no speed advantage you are getting "silence" and probably far longer disc life and vastly reduced power consumption.

Lastly I would say the bulging capacitors WERE a consequence of the Flashing Blade since 6 years is no time at all inside a cool computer. Caps last 20years and more in hot things like tellies and Valve amps!
Yes, I know there was a scare with some MOBOs with shit caps but that is all over now surely?

VERY last! I have had good results with Asus MOBOs.

Dave.

 

[Steenamaroo]

Hi Minerman, although an electronics tech I knew jack about computers but have now built 3 from scratch and swapped HDDs on even more and done many XP installs, about 4 W7 boots and one W10 install...There are ALWAYS ISSUES!

No, you're mistaken. Windows is perfect.

Number one, basic must have. A working computer as a means to investigate any problems you might encounter with the build.

Top advice!

 

[minerman]

Thanks guys,
I'm still doing some research for the new machine, all I know right now is that it will be at least some kind of quad core, with at least 8gb of ram. That's what the dead pc had, & I've gotta admit, it held up pretty good as I really pushed it with plug-ins & drum vsti's for a long time...

I've read the i5 cpu holds up pretty well against the i7, & costs quite a bit less, so that may be an option. On the other side of the fence, AMD machines seem to lag slightly behind Intel, but at lower cost, so that may be an option too. The pc that died was an AMD, & I have to admit, it took everything I threw at it, but I'm wondering if an Intel would be better for the extra $$$...

Thanks for the suggestions/help, please keep 'em coming if you have anything else to add!!!

 

[Steenamaroo]

I've read the i5 cpu holds up pretty well against the i7, & costs quite a bit less, so that may be an option. On the other side of the fence, AMD machines seem to lag slightly behind Intel, but at lower cost, so that may be an option too. The pc that died was an AMD, & I have to admit, it took everything I threw at it, but I'm wondering if an Intel would be better for the extra $$$...

Hey man,
Seriously, there are too many variables for that to be a question.
i5, i7 and AMD are completely meaningless terms unless you have details about specific chips.

There are i5s which will trash some i7s and vice versa.
There are i3s which will trash some i5s and vice versa. It really means nothing at all without more info.

No doubt someone will conclude that intel are better than AMD and i5 is better than i3, though. Now that's an answer!

 

[Chili]

The only problem I see with AMD chips is not all manufacturers or software developers will officially support it. I think AMD chips work just fine and 99.9999% of the time, there are no compatibility issues. If everything worked with your old system, then no reason you can't continue on with an AMD-based system.

And having an Intel system doesn't guarantee problem-free performance. The reason I switched computers was my main computer all these years was getting BSODs most everytime I booted it up. My work-around was to never shut it off.

 

[minerman]

Hey man,
Seriously, there are too many variables for that to be a question.
i5, i7 and AMD are completely meaningless terms unless you have details about specific chips.

There are i5s which will trash some i7s and vice versa.
There are i3s which will trash some i5s and vice versa. It really means nothing at all without more info.

No doubt someone will conclude that intel are better than AMD and i5 is better than i3, though. Now that's an answer!

Ok dude, I'll be more specific, here's a few pc's on the "list":


Intel i5/quad-core - $860
CPU: Intel® Core™ Processor i5-6400 2.70GHz 6MB Intel Smart Cache LGA1151
HDD1: 1TB Western Digital Caviar Blue SATA-III 6.0Gb/s 7200 RPM HDD
HDD2: 1TB Western Digital Caviar Blue SATA-III 6.0Gb/s 7200 RPM HDD
MEMORY: 8GB (4GBx2) DDR4/2800MHz Dual Channel Memory
MOTHERBOARD: MSI Z170A Gaming Pro CARBON ATX w/USB 3.1, 3 PCIe x16, 4 PCIe x1, 1 SATA Express, 4 SATA3, 1 Ultra M.2
OS: Windows 10 Pro 64-bit
POWERSUPPLY: 600 Watts - Standard 80 Plus Certified Power Supply - SLI/CrossFireX Ready
VIDEO: AMD Radeon R5 230 1GB GDDR3 Video Card

AMD six-core - $875
CPU: AMD FX-6300 3.50 GHz Six-Core AM3+ CPU 6MB L2 Cache & Turbo Core Technology
HDD1: 1TB Western Digital Caviar Blue SATA-III 6.0Gb/s 7200 RPM HDD
HDD2: 1TB Western Digital Caviar Blue SATA-III 6.0Gb/s 7200 RPM HDD
MEMORY: 16GB (8GBx2) DDR3/2133MHz Dual Channel Memory [+59] (ADATA XPG V3)
MOTHERBOARD: * ASUS M5A97 LE R2.0 AMD 970 ATX w/ GbLAN, 2 Gen2 PCIe x16, 2 PCIe x1, 2 PCI
OS: Windows 7 Professional 64-bit
POWERSUPPLY: 600 Watts - Standard 80 Plus Certified Power Supply - SLI/CrossFireX Ready
VIDEO: AMD Radeon R5 230 1GB GDDR3 Video Card [-28] (Single Card)


AMD quad-core - $800
CPU: AMD Athlon X4 840 3.1GHz (3.8GHz Turbo) Quad-Core Processor
HDD: 1TB SATA-III 6.0Gb/s 32MB Cache 7200RPM HDD
HDD2: 1TB SATA-III 6.0Gb/s 32MB Cache 7200RPM HDD
MEMORY: 16GB (8GBx2) DDR3/2133MHz Dual Channel Memory
MOTHERBOARD: MSI A78M-E35 V2 FM2+ AMD A78 ATX- USB 3.0 + SATA 6GB/s, GbLAN, 1 PCIe x16, 1 PCIe x1, 1 PCI
OS: Windows 7 Professional 64-bit
POWERSUPPLY: 600 Watts - Standard 80 Plus Certified Power Supply - SLI/CrossFireX Ready
VIDEO: Integrated AMD Fusion APU onboard


That said, all these would probably do great, but I could save some $$$ by going with an off-the-shelf machine with close to the same specs (IE: I've found a Dell with an i7-4790, 16gb ram & Windows 7 for about $700)...

And just to be honest, I'm not real crazy about moving to Windows 10. I've been on W7 for about 6 years & I like it, although I know it's gonna happen sooner or later...

 

[Steenamaroo]

Ok, here's a benchmark of those three chips.
Not a real world test and not necessarily meaningful as flat figures, but a useful guide.
Whether your DAW makes use of multicores or not, the i5 edges the rest out.



The i7, however, is a cut above.


I'd still replace the mobo.

 

[minerman]

Ok, here's a benchmark of those three chips.
Not a real world test and not necessarily meaningful as flat figures, but a useful guide.
Whether your DAW makes use of multicores or not, the i5 edges the rest out.

The i7, however, is a cut above.

Thanks man, seems the Intel based machines do a little better than the AMD's...

The i7 pc I mentioned is about $150-200 cheaper than the others, so I'll most likely go with the i7. 6 years ago when I bought the AMD pc, the i7 is what I had my heart set on, but opted for the AMD because it was about $300 cheaper at the time...

I'd still replace the mobo.

Eventually, I will do just that, but for now I'm just gonna bite the bullet & get a new pc. Since I have no experience with building a computer, the old one will be my "Franken-PC" to learn on...

 

[Tadpui]

I use an i7-4790 in my gaming computer. It's a great, fast processor. The only caveat is that it runs hot, and will probably require something better than the stock cooler that comes with it. I ended up liquid cooling mine, but that wouldn't work for an audio machine because the radiator fans make way too much noise. I'd bet that Corsair, CoolerMaster, or some such brand make a nice quiet and efficient cooler that'd keep the 4790k from breaking a sweat.

In my audio machine, I use an i7-4770k. It works beautifully in this setting, and the plain jane stock cooler that it came with keeps it nice and cool. And it's very quiet. The stock Intel CPU cooler on that computer is the loudest thing in my studio room, but it's barely audible and it's never a problem on recordings.

 

[Steenamaroo]

Thanks man, seems the Intel based machines do a little better than the AMD's...

Negative. Those are two chips. Like I said, those labels represent two ranges which overlap massively.
It's literally like saying v8 is better than inline 4. We haven't considered application or specs.

Will a 3.5 rover v8 be 'better' than a C-20XE? Are you pulling stuff or chasing stuff?

I'm convinced they literally make cheap shite options in each range so retailers can slap the i5 sticker on it and the majority of people think....oooh, it's i5. That's better than a rover v8.
Where was I?

Good luck! lol

 

[minerman]

Thanks again guys, I'm obviously way behind you guys with computer specs. I do believe an i5 or i7 would be an upgrade from my previous AMD machine, but I'll need to wade through all the different versions & how well they work with the other components they're matched up with...

Thanks again, & yet again, any suggestions are welcome!!!!


PS: Sorry to be such a pest....

 

[minerman]

Ok, here are some specs on a pc that should be here by Friday:

Intel i7 4790 @ 3.6ghz
16gb ddr3
2tb hdd

I also bought a WD Blue 1tb for my audio drive, along with an external case for my hdd's in the old pc so I can just transfer what I want/need to the new pc (as long as the old hdd's aren't fried that is)...

Total cost (including shipping) is just over $700...

I think this system should handle about anything I throw at it, what do you guys think???

 

[Steenamaroo]

Absolutely man. You're going to be in great shape!
If the old HDDs work OK, I'd recommend taking a full backup of them. It's good practice to keep double or triple backups anyway.
I was going to say never trust an old hard drive but, really, never trust a hard drive.

Best of luck.

 

[minerman]

Absolutely man. You're going to be in great shape!
If the old HDDs work OK, I'd recommend taking a full backup of them. It's good practice to keep double or triple backups anyway.
I was going to say never trust an old hard drive but, really, never trust a hard drive.

Best of luck.

Thanks Steen, this is what I wanted 6 years ago when I bought the AMD pc that died a few days ago. Including the extra hdd, the AMD was about $1,000 total. So I think this is a great deal for about $300 less than I paid before...

Can't wait 'til it gets here, but I do honestly dread installing all the software again, that will take several hours just to accomplish...

I really, really hope those 2 hdd's aren't shot, especially the audio drive. While I've got most of it backed up to an external, I don't have it all...

Pretty excited to say the least!!!

 

[ecc83]

"...but I do honestly dread installing all the software again, that will take several hours just to accomplish..."

AFAIK you could disconnect the hard drive in the new PC and fit a virgin new one then fit the old hard drive with all your software on it (having backed it up, twice!). You can then clone the old drive to the new one. There are several free softwares around to do the job. When I bought my Crucial SSD they gave me a "ticket" to unlock a download of such software but I did not go that route for various other reasons and did a clean OS (W7) install instead.

Downside is you are copying over any hidden crap and possible malware but it should save you a lot of time?

But I am a very noob computer noob so be guided by the gurus here.

Dave.

 

[MiamiMike]

The newest generation of Intel CORE processors are the cat's meow. They blow AMD's out of the universe. I have a friend
at Intel but I've also noticed it myself in recent builds/repairs.

Generally speaking: Intel usually has an upper hand on AMD because it produces and releases processors to consumers faster than AMD which have: lower TDP (more efficient chips), faster chipsets for the processor on the motherboard (which can perform Input and Output operations much more quickly), more cache on the processor (which can perform repetitive tasks more quickly), and are usually better at overclocking (which is also related to the TDP).
That said, all of this goodness is also reflected in Intel's price point in comparison to AMD. If you wait a bit, AMD tends to release processors that perform just as fast as Intel a little later in the year, but they tend to be a little more power hungry.

Windows 10 also handles most 64 bit plugs quite well and so far appears to be the most stable OS of Windoze evah!

Happy hunting!