Is it True that Acoustic Foam is useless?

Nola

Nola

Well-known member
I have read a lot of bad reviews of it.

My problem is probably the same as most here. The walls are dry wall material and kind of hollow sounding if you knock on them. When I clap it's a lot of that harsh sounding reverb/combing. The floor has carpet. The ceiling is gross tactic material, not sure what it is. I just want to make it more usable, not have a pro studio. I read about acoustic cotton, and it seems intriguing. Is that better than the foam? I can't make fiberglass traps due to the lease terms. I'm not even sure I'd be able to hang acoustic cotton, depending how you mount it.

What's the best way to just get rid of that comb filtering/echo when clapping. It has to be aesthetic b/c this room doubles as a living room. thanks
 
You can make fiberglass traps and mount them on a stand. If you are leasing a space, I'm sure they won't let you glue foam to the wall.
 
Farview said:
You can make fiberglass traps and mount them on a stand. If you are leasing a space, I'm sure they won't let you glue foam to the wall.
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I was gonna use t pins or tacks to put up the foam. So is foam useless?
I'm afraid to work with fiberglass, tbh, because I keep reading how bad a health problem it is. Do you think acoustic cotton is any good?
 
Acoustic foam does pretty well for high frequencies. The thing is, so do a lot of materials that cost substantially less money. Blankets, comforters, clothing...

The problem with using only acoustic foam for treating a room is that since it only really absorbs high and mid-high frequencies, it leaves all of the low-mid and low frequencies unaffected, leading to a "muddy" or "boomy" sounding room. For vocals or voiceovers, that's probably not a huge deal. But for mixing full-range mixes, or tracking guitar/bass/drums/piano/any instrument that's not a piccolo or a dog whistle, a muddy and boomy sounding room presents a ton of problems when trying to make mix decisions.
 
Tadpui said:
Acoustic foam does pretty well for high frequencies. The thing is, so do a lot of materials that cost substantially less money. Blankets, comforters, clothing...

The problem with using only acoustic foam for treating a room is that since it only really absorbs high and mid-high frequencies, it leaves all of the low-mid and low frequencies unaffected, leading to a "muddy" or "boomy" sounding room. For vocals or voiceovers, that's probably not a huge deal. But for mixing full-range mixes, or tracking guitar/bass/drums/piano/any instrument that's not a piccolo or a dog whistle, a muddy and boomy sounding room presents a ton of problems when trying to make mix decisions.
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Thanks, tadpui
I'm more worried about it for recording than mixing because I mix in a pretty good/neutral set of headphones and then reference it on other systems. I have been doing that for so long I know the headphones and how things will translate. But for recording this room is awful. The only instruments I'm recording are acoustic guitar and voice, but both have a lot of those comb filtering type sounds in the coloring. Do you think foam bass traps in the corners and then absorbers on the wall are worth it? I keep reading people say the foam is a big scam. I guess the value is the issue since we can use cheaper things, but in my case I have to appease my gf and landlord so it has to be tidy since this room doubles as a living space. So maybe the value is something I just have to eat, if they truly work. If they don't work well then I'll have to figure something else out. Right now I use a tent frame and lay blankets over it to record acoustic guitar. That is so ghetto and a real pain to setup, and it doesn't work that great.

Maybe I should make sure I'm identifying the right problem. So if I play acoustic guitar in this room basically there is zero definition or articulation in any notes. It sounds like a clangy, metallic wash of notes when I strum a chord.
 
Get rid of the Dobro...seriously, it sounds like you're talking about flutter echo which foam actually does help.
Now, getting rid of the boominess the guitar will have if you don't use some foam traps is a different story. :)
 
BroKen_H said:
it sounds like you're talking about flutter echo which foam actually does help.
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YES! It actually has a pitch to it at times...like I don't hear the pitch when I play live, but on recordings I have to EQ out actual pitches. And it's metallic, harsh, and ringy. I hate it.

That's good foam fixes that. Can anyone explain how the price and quality of foam come into play? Is there a difference between Auralex and the cheaper knock off brand stuff? Is there some type of rating I should look for?

So say the foam fixes the flutter echo. At that point, do you think small bass traps like these would help with boominess?
Amazon.com: Auralex Acoustics LENRD Acoustic Absorption Bass Traps, 4 Pack, Charcoal: Musical Instruments

See, these are half the price: Amazon.com: 4 Pack! Bass Absorber Trap Corner Soundproofing Foam 12 X12 X 24": Musical Instruments

Or even these: Amazon.com: Acoustic Foam Bass Trap Studio Soundproofing Corner Wall 12" X 12" X 12" (4 PACK): Musical Instruments

Is there a huge quality difference between Auralex and the generic ones?
 
Whoa...sounds like you were waiting for anybody to say something that sounded like approval for foam. I didn't say that...I thought you already had the foam.

If you haven't bought yet, just get some Roxul and build traps with 1x4 pine. They'll be light weight and with some picture mounting hardware all you'll need to do is put a couple nails in the walls and then take em back down when you move out. As far as difference in price. The Roxul will end up being cheaper and (in the long run) give you better definition in your room as well as take care of the flutter echo problems. I have a box of 2x2 OC703 frames and board with Burgundy and Gray covers I'd send you for $100 if you pay shipping. Bought them from Acoustimac and ended up with too much. (They're $26 a piece from Acoustimac)... so about 1/2 price.
 
BroKen_H said:
Whoa...sounds like you were waiting for anybody to say something that sounded like approval for foam.
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haha, sorry. when i wrote "yes!" i meant to the flutter echo. i got overly excited b/c it's been bothering me for months and i didn't know what it was called.

i don't want approval for foam -- if it stinks, i'd like to be warned so i don't waste money.

i don't know how to build anything, not sure i can legally do that under my lease, and fear i'd make a mess, but i will look into roxul.
 
Like I said, I've got a box of 8 kits. Frame/OC703/and covers. All you'd need is a staple gun, and some picture mounting hardware...OC703 is Owens Corning's version of Roxul. I don't think it's better or worse, but it's more expensive. I just want it out of the breakfast nook. :)
 
BroKen_H said:
Whoa...sounds like you were waiting for anybody to say something that sounded like approval for foam. I didn't say that...I thought you already had the foam.

If you haven't bought yet, just get some Roxul and build traps with 1x4 pine. They'll be light weight and with some picture mounting hardware all you'll need to do is put a couple nails in the walls and then take em back down when you move out. As far as difference in price. The Roxul will end up being cheaper and (in the long run) give you better definition in your room as well as take care of the flutter echo problems. I have a box of 2x2 OC703 frames and board with Burgundy and Gray covers I'd send you for $100 if you pay shipping. Bought them from Acoustimac and ended up with too much. (They're $26 a piece from Acoustimac)... so about 1/2 price.
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The frames are pretty easy to make, here is a photo of mine, I ripped a piece of 1x4 to make a hanger for them, I can just lift them off the wall if needed.
 

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Bass traps suck at solving HF room issues. Diffusers fail if you don't need diffusion, and foam fails if you have issues down the bottom. Panels that are unbraced resonate at a particular frequency, so lots of identical sized panels will make the room honk badly. Absorbers work best at their design frequency. Loads of tools available, and you select the right ones.

Foam doesn't suck at all, WHEN it's the right tool. I can put a screw in with a hammer, but there are better tools available for the job. Buy a screwdriver.
 
Yeah, my biggest frequency problem was around 1600 Hz. So bass traps and a rear wall grid type qrd was all I put in. Mine are all 2x2 but I made them square diamond square diamond to overcome the honk...green glue and padding them off the wall helps a bit. Having some 2" and some 4" helps. Ceiling clouds were a God send. I'm sure Ethan Winer would laugh at my solution (maybe not, he's a pretty nice guy), but it works for me. :)
 
Im looking to set up my room to get a better recording sound. Just trying to understand whats right whats wrong and everything i can do to better the space.

Wish i could post a video because my loft is tricky.

Basically my room is 12 feet tall on one side and 18 feet tall on the side opposite side so my ceiling slants. On the up slant side there is a loft. The room is about 12/14 feet wide. With the exception of some weird corners. How does this effect my sound ? What can i do to get a better sound?

Soundcloud.com/astemariii
 
Astemari;
Actually the slanted ceiling should help, not hinder...less parallel surfaces. I think I saw your post yesterday, but I'm a bit scared to give any opine. But here goes:

It looks like a fairly big space, so if the echos are not high and fluttery, you should do well with standard bass trapping in the corners (including around that strange indent), place your desk a few feet away from the indent on the top wall of the third picture, centered between the two walls. Make it to where when you sit at the desk, you're head will be around the 39% point (of the length of the room). If you're getting weird echos from above, drop some ceiling clouds (2'x4'x4") from the ceiling (I'd guess down to where they're about 9.5' off the ground...) at both of the 39% points.

Set your speakers to where you have an equilateral triangle between your head and the speakers and then point them just slightly behind your ears.

If you use a laser pointer and a mirror, you will be able to find the first points of reflection for your speakers. That will be center points for more trapping. So now you have corners trapped, first reflections trapped and the clouds above your head. From there it will take some calculating to find the rest of the problems (if there are any) to which I would need to defer to REW Room EQ Wizard.
Good luck and happy recording :D

By the way, if you PM John Brandt or Ethan Winer (not guaranteed they'll be around, but worth a try) they have decades of experience in this sort of thing.
 
I read a story about the studio in Muscle Shoals when the Stones recorded a lot of the Sticky Fingers ( Wild Horses, Brown Sugar, etc) tracks. The guy who owned the studio saw that the building next door was throwing away some cardboard shapes that some lighting fixtures had been packed in. He spray painted them and nailed them to the wall because they looked like diffusers or absorbers.... Anyway, the rest is history.
 
The best thing that I know of for sound adsorption is Owens Corning 703.
Look at eBay and get this. Cover it with a layer of colored cloth and it looks like a million and will remove anything that reverberates.

Tom
 
Tom Paul said:
He spray painted them and nailed them to the wall because they looked like diffusers or absorbers.... Anyway, the rest is history.
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:) :thumbs up:

Nothing wrong with doing proper things to get your studio "perfect"...but man, I do feel that people get too worked up over it.
I mean, get some basic trapping, tweak a few things, and then....learn how to work in your space.

The more modern studios were/are built from the ground up for that purpose....but so many, in history, where some great *sounding* records were tracked, had what would be considered less-than ideal treatments at the time, and some probably had just cardboard boxes that were painted to look like diffusers/absorbers. ;)
 
There're good opinions all around but facts are facts.
Some foam, amongst other things, will help to deaden the room.
A completely "dead" room isn't good.
Care has to be taken to not remove too much top end from the room.
The density of the foam will determine what freqs. it will address.
Foam won't address bottom end, room nodes etc.
Bass traps are needed in almost every room.
Diffusion is particularly important in standard/regular boxes shaped rooms.
Bass traps are particularly important in standard/regular boxes shaped rooms.
Read the information on room acoustics at REALTRAPS RealTraps - Home and GIK Acoustic Panels | Bass Traps | Diffusors | GIK Acoustics to cross reference and work out what you really need - THEN, if you can't afford what they sell, build your own.
All I have written above is opinion as I am no expert and have only a limited amount of experience and have only done some of what I mention.
ONE THING I do know though - mixing in headphones will only work for music listened to on headphones.
 
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