Time to take it to the next level and go pro, but....

MeltdownStudio

MeltdownStudio

New member
Hi everyone, i was hoping i could get some advice on setting up my studio, i think its time to take it to the next level and go pro to try making some money back in what i do.

Here is a video of my studio, sorry but its very messy at the mo!



Would anybody be able to help me out here with my acoustics and speaker placement, in this video at the front where i have my studio set up, i have everything fixed to the wall (i,e screens & monitors all on swivel brackets and the bench), do you think i should move my bench back from the wall and leave an empty space there ( to maybe fit my new 8" speakers there on stands as soon as i decide on which ones to go for in the 500-600 euro range ) also as you can see in the video its a little wider there by about 1 foot where everything is set up, i am thinking, should i square off that odd corner so the room is the same size all the way back, then reposition everything to be dead center of the room. Also where do you think i should place my BX5's after i replace them with 8", i was thinking left and right either side of me on brackets.

My room size is (with all the corners blocked off) would be 8 ft wide x 6 1/2 foot hight and 14 foot long

How far should i bring my bench back if i do have to move it and also how far back from the wall so i place my speakers, would they be best on stands or should i build a shelf right across the back wall and have my monitors sitting on them at ear level

Thank you for any help or feedback

Jay Meltdown
 
bongoboy said:
What exactly are you wanting to do in there? 8x6.5x14 is basically an over sized closet.
Click to expand...

A well i cant change the size of it, i was only asking for some help with my acoustics.

I Produce, Mix and Master HardHouse Music, i never do any recording so thats not an issue.
 
What he's saying is that it's preety small, even if you're just mixing.

When you say "its time to take it to the next level and go pro to try making some money back in what i do"...how do you envision that? What would you consider "pro" and what do you think it would take to "make some money"?

It's important to do a reality check, so knowing the answers to that will help you do the reality check.
 
What I mean is go Pro and start charging people to come into the studio with me to produce Hard House Music so I want to treat the room as best I can for what I have
 
There are a couple of obstacles to "going pro".

The first is that the room is very small. This is going to give you way more acoustic problems than a larger room, and you are going to have do some hard work with acoustic treatment to get a professional recording environment.

The second is that the room has to look 'pro', which means getting rid of all that stuff that doesn't belong and getting it cleaned up.
 
gecko zzed said:
There are a couple of obstacles to "going pro".

The first is that the room is very small. This is going to give you way more acoustic problems than a larger room, and you are going to have do some hard work with acoustic treatment to get a professional recording environment.

The second is that the room has to look 'pro', which means getting rid of all that stuff that doesn't belong and getting it cleaned up.
Click to expand...


That ^^^...

miroslav said:
What he's saying is that it's preety small, even if you're just mixing.

When you say "its time to take it to the next level and go pro to try making some money back in what i do"...how do you envision that? What would you consider "pro" and what do you think it would take to "make some money"?

It's important to do a reality check, so knowing the answers to that will help you do the reality check.
Click to expand...

...is what I ^^^...

MeltdownStudio said:
What I mean is go Pro and start charging people to come into the studio with me to produce Hard House Music so I want to treat the room as best I can for what I have
Click to expand...


...meant about you ^^^...

... doing a reality check. :)
 
The needs of the recording environment for digital based music is much different than us 'acoustic' guys.

Yes, he will be best served with treating the hell out of that room. But... I personally find that it will not be so important for the clients he takes on. Not because of the the genre, but what they will be listening on and how important anything other than the beat is.

Just what I have found with clients who came to me to mix this type of material.

I could be totally wrong, but that has been my limited experience.
 
gecko zzed said:
There are a couple of obstacles to "going pro".

The first is that the room is very small. This is going to give you way more acoustic problems than a larger room, and you are going to have do some hard work with acoustic treatment to get a professional recording environment.

The second is that the room has to look 'pro', which means getting rid of all that stuff that doesn't belong and getting it cleaned up.
Click to expand...

Thank you for your reply, maybe i should of said semi-pro, i wasn't expecting so many negitive comments on here, i just wanted some help with my speaker placement and accoustics as i asked in my post. The room is what it is i can't change that, i have dj'ed and produced many tracks in there since 1997 and has done me fine up till now, the place is very messy at the moment, that is just because im sorting out my record collection, i usually have the place spotless.
I am getting new monitors next week (maybe Presonus Eris 8 or Yamaha HS8) so this is why i posted here to ask for some help in getting my room set up BETTER than i have it at the mo.

So if anyone can help me out here that would be great

Thanks

Jay
 
jimmys69 said:
The needs of the recording environment for digital based music is much different than us 'acoustic' guys.

Yes, he will be best served with treating the hell out of that room. But... I personally find that it will not be so important for the clients he takes on. Not because of the the genre, but what they will be listening on and how important anything other than the beat is.

Just what I have found with clients who came to me to mix this type of material.

I could be totally wrong, but that has been my limited experience.
Click to expand...

Thank you very much for your reply.
Yes your dead right in saying that digital based music is much different than us 'acoustic' guys, i will never be recording in there so thats not an issue.
But what is an issue, and why i started a thread here is my accoustics and speaker placement. I am upgrading my M-Audio BX5a's to 8" and was thinking of getting the Personus Eris 8's (very good price ) or Yamaha HS8, so the reason i posted the video was to see if anyone could help me out with the way i have everything set up, (not all the negitive comments i got).

If my room needs a lot of treating what do you recomend i do to treat it, also should i move my bench back from the wall, and square off the odd coner, would my monitors be best put up on stands sitting behind my desk, what should i do with my BX5s, where should i place them, also i have a Mission M32 that i use as a sub with the BX5s i have that placed under my bench as you can see in the video, is this the right place for it and would i need that anymore if i get the 8's.

Thank you for your feedback

Jay
 
There are several reasons to consult an acoustics professional here -- A couple of which:

(1) Generally speaking, the "safe place" to start is with your head .38 the distance of the long wall from the short wall. In your case, that's 5.3' -- assuming you keep your speakers at least a foot away from the wall (at least), you're looking at an equilateral triangle of around 4 feet.

But you have (at least from what I can tell from the video) an irregular space. That adjusts the physics involved from a relatively simple rule of thumb to a much more complex set of calculations.

(2) Subwoofers -- I do anything and everything to avoid them for a bunch of reasons. Not the least of which is that "I'm not qualified" to set them up. I've been in the room with professional acousticians, I've had them (pro acousticians) here, I've "looked over the shoulder" of people who are quite good at setting up playback systems. I'm actually fairly competent at setting up a stereo playback setup -- But when you add a sub, there's an entirely different bunch of calculations again.
is this the right place for it and would i need that anymore if i get the 8's.
Click to expand...
30+ years doing this and I couldn't tell you. I'd bet a dollar that under the desk is most definitely not where it should be. Whether you need it with 8's is another story to some extent. I could probably give you some idea if I were actually in the room with some reference recordings. THAT SAID:

TREATMENT: I'm *assuming* by the 6.5' ceilings that you're in a basement. I can then extrapolate that there are concrete walls below ground. I can then conclude that you're going to need relatively obscene amounts of broadband trapping. Heck - Even above ground you're going to need obscene amounts of trapping. Underground, especially with concrete walls, you need even more.

Rip down the foam and burn it. Put in a dozen (at least) broadband traps. All four corners floor-to-ceiling is all but universal (6.5' ceilings is going to make that difficult). High sides to the mix position is another. (we've hit a dozen already and have made a dent so far). Front and back walls and sides to the mix position including the first reflection points are the other basically universal starting points.

It's easy enough to "DIY" most of that with -- Well, I'd recommend Roxul Safe 'n Sound or Owens-Corning 703 or 705 rigid fiberglass. You can cut the 2'x4'x'4" chunks into a trio of triangles - Each will go roughly 1' high. 6 (roughly) panels per corner. One panel per high side. Two or three in the front, same with the rear, probably 2 per side at the first reflection points. ALL covered with cloth (that's fairly important). You can save a few bucks by using pink stuff (R-19 or higher, IMO/E) left in the bags for the corners. Takes up more space, but works quite well. Enough of that mass will smooth out the response in the low end. The high end will pretty much take care of itself at that point.

If you really want to take it to the next level, start with that.

I'd be a fan of moving up to 8" speakers. I wouldn't even turn a sub on until the space is well treated (then I'd call a pro in to shoot the room and place the subs, but maybe I mentioned that already). Proper room treatment is more or less non-negotiable... This isn't a home theatre where you're looking for a "pleasant listening experience" (although this would also be the base treatment for a "proper" home theatre also). You're looking for accuracy and consistency.
 
MeltdownStudio said:
Thank you very much for your reply.
Yes your dead right in saying that digital based music is much different than us 'acoustic' guys, i will never be recording in there so thats not an issue.
Click to expand...

While tracking and mixing may not have the exact set of acoustic requirements...they both do have acoustic requirements.
IOW...just 'cuz it's "digital", you still need to have a decent mixing area, which involves acoustic treatment...and if you want it "pro"...there's more to it than just positioning your speakers and putting up some acoustic panels.

If you see that as a "negative" response"...sorry.
I get it that the space you have is the space you have...but that doesn't make the acoustics issues go away. IOW...there's not "shortcut" or secret way of avoiding them regardless of the space you have.

Anyway....follow Massive's suggestions above...and if none of it is possible, then go with whatever you think is best.
 
The other side of the problems you will run into is monitors. Good monitors that will give you full range (especially the low end that that genre will generate) will have a problem set. Attenuation will rob the bass, correct volume will blow out your ears in that size room. Remember that a lot of these speakers are pumping 100+dB @ 1 meter @ 1W. You haven't got much more than that meter in your room, so getting 70W speakers running with any air pump for that bass is gonna be painful...
 
Sorry Jay, but anyone with experience will tell you the above. Most people won't waste time trying to help someone do it wrong. Best of luck to you anyway.
 
Massive Master said:
There are several reasons to consult an acoustics professional here -- A couple of which:

(1) Generally speaking, the "safe place" to start is with your head .38 the distance of the long wall from the short wall. In your case, that's 5.3' -- assuming you keep your speakers at least a foot away from the wall (at least), you're looking at an equilateral triangle of around 4 feet.

But you have (at least from what I can tell from the video) an irregular space. That adjusts the physics involved from a relatively simple rule of thumb to a much more complex set of calculations.

(2) Subwoofers -- I do anything and everything to avoid them for a bunch of reasons. Not the least of which is that "I'm not qualified" to set them up. I've been in the room with professional acousticians, I've had them (pro acousticians) here, I've "looked over the shoulder" of people who are quite good at setting up playback systems. I'm actually fairly competent at setting up a stereo playback setup -- But when you add a sub, there's an entirely different bunch of calculations again.

30+ years doing this and I couldn't tell you. I'd bet a dollar that under the desk is most definitely not where it should be. Whether you need it with 8's is another story to some extent. I could probably give you some idea if I were actually in the room with some reference recordings. THAT SAID:

TREATMENT: I'm *assuming* by the 6.5' ceilings that you're in a basement. I can then extrapolate that there are concrete walls below ground. I can then conclude that you're going to need relatively obscene amounts of broadband trapping. Heck - Even above ground you're going to need obscene amounts of trapping. Underground, especially with concrete walls, you need even more.

Rip down the foam and burn it. Put in a dozen (at least) broadband traps. All four corners floor-to-ceiling is all but universal (6.5' ceilings is going to make that difficult). High sides to the mix position is another. (we've hit a dozen already and have made a dent so far). Front and back walls and sides to the mix position including the first reflection points are the other basically universal starting points.

It's easy enough to "DIY" most of that with -- Well, I'd recommend Roxul Safe 'n Sound or Owens-Corning 703 or 705 rigid fiberglass. You can cut the 2'x4'x'4" chunks into a trio of triangles - Each will go roughly 1' high. 6 (roughly) panels per corner. One panel per high side. Two or three in the front, same with the rear, probably 2 per side at the first reflection points. ALL covered with cloth (that's fairly important). You can save a few bucks by using pink stuff (R-19 or higher, IMO/E) left in the bags for the corners. Takes up more space, but works quite well. Enough of that mass will smooth out the response in the low end. The high end will pretty much take care of itself at that point.

If you really want to take it to the next level, start with that.

I'd be a fan of moving up to 8" speakers. I wouldn't even turn a sub on until the space is well treated (then I'd call a pro in to shoot the room and place the subs, but maybe I mentioned that already). Proper room treatment is more or less non-negotiable... This isn't a home theatre where you're looking for a "pleasant listening experience" (although this would also be the base treatment for a "proper" home theatre also). You're looking for accuracy and consistency.
Click to expand...

Thank you very much for taking your time to respond to my post, you have been more than help, so much so i have knocked down my old bench and i am about to build a new one and follow everything you said, i will post back as soon as im finished.

Here is a video of my progress so far


Just one thing would the panels i already have be worth putting up above me on the ceiling ?

Thanks

Jay Meltdown
 
BroKen_H said:
The other side of the problems you will run into is monitors. Good monitors that will give you full range (especially the low end that that genre will generate) will have a problem set. Attenuation will rob the bass, correct volume will blow out your ears in that size room. Remember that a lot of these speakers are pumping 100+dB @ 1 meter @ 1W. You haven't got much more than that meter in your room, so getting 70W speakers running with any air pump for that bass is gonna be painful...
Click to expand...

Thank you for your reply, thats what im trying to figur out now

I am looking at these

Focal Alpha 65/80
Yamaha HS8
Personus Eris 8

My budget is €600 for new monitors i can get a pair of Focal 65 with stands for that or for another €100 i can the 80's with stands, the thing i am not to sure about is the size of the 8" speakers in a room as small as mine, do i really need a speaker that size if im sitting 3-4 foot infront of them, but, i do want bass and i also want a top brand, would the Focals be more than enough for my room, do you think this might be the best speaker i could get due to it been a little smaller
 
MeltdownStudio said:
Just one thing would the panels i already have be worth putting up above me on the ceiling ?
Click to expand...

Jay, I really admire your enthusiasm to jump in and do this right despite the limitations of the room. To me, part of the wonderful challenge of this hobby is actually trying to figure out how to make the best out of what we have. We don't all have a million dollars or a 3000 square foot building, yet we have a passion for this stuff and go for it anyway. Hell yeah!

To answer your question with my limited knowledge: that foam may have some use above you on the ceiling, but you may get better results with a more robust ceiling cloud. The problem you're gonna have, of course, is the low ceiling height, but maybe for the reflection point at least it won't matter so much. Maybe make a 4" thick cloud out of something like rockboard 60, position it halfway between the monitors and your ears, and if doesn't make things seem to cramped for you then also suspend it a couple inches from the ceiling. It'll be more or less over your desk, so you won't have to stand under it - maybe even build some cool lighting into the frame or something to light up your work area.

Getting that room treated and organized is going to be a challenge but you can do it!. Why don't you draw up a quick floor plan and post your thoughts for feedback? I'd love to follow along and see how this goes. Good luck!

P.S. Hopefully someone else can chime in with advice about the monitors...
 
JeffLancaster said:
Jay, I really admire your enthusiasm to jump in and do this right despite the limitations of the room. To me, part of the wonderful challenge of this hobby is actually trying to figure out how to make the best out of what we have. We don't all have a million dollars or a 3000 square foot building, yet we have a passion for this stuff and go for it anyway. Hell yeah!

To answer your question with my limited knowledge: that foam may have some use above you on the ceiling, but you may get better results with a more robust ceiling cloud. The problem you're gonna have, of course, is the low ceiling height, but maybe for the reflection point at least it won't matter so much. Maybe make a 4" thick cloud out of something like rockboard 60, position it halfway between the monitors and your ears, and if doesn't make things seem to cramped for you then also suspend it a couple inches from the ceiling. It'll be more or less over your desk, so you won't have to stand under it - maybe even build some cool lighting into the frame or something to light up your work area.

Getting that room treated and organized is going to be a challenge but you can do it!. Why don't you draw up a quick floor plan and post your thoughts for feedback? I'd love to follow along and see how this goes. Good luck!

P.S. Hopefully someone else can chime in with advice about the monitors...
Click to expand...


Well you got it spot on there, the place is what it is so i am goin to try get the best i can out of it, (even if it does mean spending a lot of money on treating the room)(i will be building a new studio is the near future so at least i will have a head start) but for now this place will have to do, and producing music is what i do so i need my studio.

I phoned a few places that sell insulation here in my home town and the best i could get was RockWool ( the soft stuff for walls ) cost 32 euro a bag which is pritty expensive, would that be any good for making basstraps or a cloud or does it have to be rigid board like you said, i can order some of that on ebay or amazon.

How many do you think i would need on the walls and ceiling

Really like your idea of putting some cool lighting around the clouds i will look into that, thanks!

Onto the monitors, i think have come down to these 2

Yamaha HS8
or
Focal Alpha 65

Thank you for your feedback i will keep you posted on my progress

Here is the last video, i have the place gutted now and cleared everything out so you will get a much better idea of the size of the room

 
I am going to square off the corner at the back of my bench as you can see in the video, but there's not much i can do about the corner where i have my records. I have a curtain there, with that pulled over i have 4 corners and i could put a basstrap and stick it to the wall if i wanted to.

The room size squared up is 8x6.5x14, i will be putting a 32 Inch screen right infront of my bench hanging off the wall, my monitors will be on stands behind the bench aswell, so should i treat all of that wall.around the TV and what about the wall behind me in the middle, i do know (NOW haha) about the 1st reflections so i will treat that accordingly

Thanks for all your help

Jay

Meltdown Studio
 
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