"Lifeline Yellow Allegro Man" - complete re-record, live drums

Bubba po

Bubba po

Tiny Stonehenge Moment
"Lifeline (Yellow Allegro Man)" - complete re-record, live drums

Hi, I've finally completed the re-recording of my demo that I posted up a couple of weeks ago. I always intended to record it with real drums and this my best attempt at it.

I tried to take on board all the advice I got on my previous recording, including some arrangement ideas from Armistice. All the guitars are real. Another point to note is that this is my first recording using a DAW. I'm using Sonar, which isn't very intuitive, so for my next project I'm going to try out Reaper. I recorded all the tracks using my Boss BR-800 digital recorder and transferred them one at a time, nudging the tracks until they were in time. A bit fiddly and time consuming, but I can't think of another way to do it, given my equipment limitations.

Greg, you might notice the following lead part is a bit "surfy". It's my Jaguar and it sounded so good on its own I considered submitting it as a surf tune (but with different rhythm guitars, obviously) I might still do that. :D

Anyway, all constructive criticisms will be gratefully received.



And the remix of my first demo for comparison:

 
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Not too bad. The drums are the weak link IMO. They sound boxy and distant compared to the rest of the track which is all pretty clean and up front.

I think the rhythm guitars should come up. Not a bunch, but the left rhythm sounds pretty good from what I can hear, but I'm struggling to hear it. The right guitar playing the little licks and runs can stay the same, maybe a small bump up. The lead is cool, I'm not getting much of a surfy feel from it, but it's cool nonetheless. The only issue I have with the lead is the rhythm guitar playing to the right. It's competing with the lead. I'd put a basic chord rhythm over there, like the left guitar, during the lead. I think the lead would really stand out then. But overall it's pretty good. Needs drum help. Do have individual drum tracks, or is that a room recording?
 
I would have the two rhythm tracks at the same level panned out. When there is a single lead I would pan it to the middle. The double leads panned sounds pretty cool. As Greg said the drums sound kind of weak. They sound well recorded though. With some EQ and maybe some parallel compression they would probably sound a lot meatier. Oh and I think the vocal is a bit dry and upfront in the mix.
 
I think it sounds good bubba. I like the tune and I think the backup vocal dropping down in the second part of the "I need a life line" refrain is really cool. I think the entire song shows a great creative sense of melody. Just a good pop song IMO. The mix is good I think. The drums are kind of boxy but not bad. I like the vocal up front and a bit dry myself, so I think it fits the rest of the mix
 
Greg_L said:
Not too bad. The drums are the weak link IMO. They sound boxy and distant compared to the rest of the track which is all pretty clean and up front.

I think the rhythm guitars should come up. Not a bunch, but the left rhythm sounds pretty good from what I can hear, but I'm struggling to hear it. The right guitar playing the little licks and runs can stay the same, maybe a small bump up. The lead is cool, I'm not getting much of a surfy feel from it, but it's cool nonetheless. The only issue I have with the lead is the rhythm guitar playing to the right. It's competing with the lead. I'd put a basic chord rhythm over there, like the left guitar, during the lead. I think the lead would really stand out then. But overall it's pretty good. Needs drum help. Do have individual drum tracks, or is that a room recording?
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Thanks for the positive comments about the guitars and stuff, but the drum fail is a real bummer to me - it's the one thing I really wanted to get right. I have four tracks for the drums; kick, snare and two overheads. The kick and snare mics are proper mics for the job but from a budget set. The overheads are cheap Chord branded vocal condenser mics. The issues as I see them are:

Cons.

1. I'm not a drummer - I don't know how to tune the drums (particularly the kick), where best to place the mics, what sort of damping to use.
2. My room is small, square and filled with other gear - I'm sure the boxiness is accentuated by this.

3. I've used the wrong reverb. I picked one that sounded good on the instruments and vocals and sent everything to a reverb buss. I think I need a separate reverb buss with a different treatment for the drums. What are your thoughts?

Pros:

1. It's a decent kit which actually sounds good to me. Not very resonant toms, though- they're a shallower design than many shells.

2. My son's a good drummer, so the performance is usually good.
 
It's a cool tune with a strong melody bubba. I listened earlier and it's been stuck in my head since. My grandad had one of those yellow Allegros for years that he took a bizarre amount of pride in considering that it was a complete shed.

Guitars and tones sound a ton better than the first mix. I think I prefer the dreaminess of the vocals with the extra reverb on first time around - but I'm guessing that it was a conscious choice to strip that back, so it probably just comes down to taste.

I don't know enough about real drums to suggest anything practical - so I'll leave that to the likes of Greg.
 
Bubba po said:
Thanks for the positive comments about the guitars and stuff, but the drum fail is a real bummer to me - it's the one thing I really wanted to get right. I have four tracks for the drums; kick, snare and two overheads. The kick and snare mics are proper mics for the job but from a budget set. The overheads are cheap Chord branded vocal condenser mics. The issues as I see them are:

Cons.

1. I'm not a drummer - I don't know how to tune the drums (particularly the kick), where best to place the mics, what sort of damping to use.
2. My room is small, square and filled with other gear - I'm sure the boxiness is accentuated by this.

3. I've used the wrong reverb. I picked one that sounded good on the instruments and vocals and sent everything to a reverb buss. I think I need a separate reverb buss with a different treatment for the drums. What are your thoughts?

Pros:

1. It's a decent kit which actually sounds good to me. Not very resonant toms, though- they're a shallower design than many shells.

2. My son's a good drummer, so the performance is usually good.
Click to expand...

If you'd like, send me the 4 drum tracks. Let me hear them by themselves, play with them a little, and maybe I can come up with some ideas that you can apply yourself to clean em up. Just host the wavs somewhere and send me a download link.
 
Greg_L said:
If you'd like, send me the 4 drum tracks. Let me hear them by themselves, play with them a little, and maybe I can come up with some ideas that you can apply yourself to clean em up. Just host the wavs somewhere and send me a download link.
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I'll do that, Greg, thanks. I think there's an option to export separate wavs in a single file, or I can host them on Soundcloud, but you'd have to cue them up individually. I'll look into it when I get home from work.

And thanks, Rob - I changed the singing because my op. has healed a lot now and I wanted to try it with more gusto! I agree that the dreamier sound is quite nice.
 
No don't use soundcloud for that. Use google drive or dropbox or something to upload the raw wavs and I'll download them. Bounce them out all starting from the same spot.
 
jimistone said:
I think it sounds good bubba. I like the tune and I think the backup vocal dropping down in the second part of the "I need a life line" refrain is really cool. I think the entire song shows a great creative sense of melody. Just a good pop song IMO. The mix is good I think. The drums are kind of boxy but not bad. I like the vocal up front and a bit dry myself, so I think it fits the rest of the mix
Click to expand...

Thanks, Jimi. It's a lot more civilised out of the Cave, isn't it?:D

---------- Update ----------

Greg_L said:
No don't use soundcloud for that. Use google drive or dropbox or something to upload the raw wavs and I'll download them. Bounce them out all starting from the same spot.
Click to expand...

Ok, will do. :thumbs up:
 
Bubba po said:
Thanks, Jimi. It's a lot more civilised out of the Cave, isn't it?:D

---------- Update ----------



Ok, will do. :thumbs up:
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Yeah, the cave is all shtick...at least it is for me. Some take all that BS seriously.
That's why I like this site. You can argue over politics in the cave and then forget all that and get serious about recording. There is a forum for everything here...No matter what you have in mind.
 
dobro said:
I was wondering if it was the wrong room or the wrong verb. It sounds like a convolution reverb to me. ?
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Hi, it's a stock Sonar plugin. It works for the vocals and guitars but unfortunately it doesn't sit well with the room sound from the overheads. I suspect I've placed those wrongly and got a ton of phase cancellation.
 
I thought the remix was a big improvement to the drums. In the first version they were kind of distant sounding. In the remix they're much more upfront and tight sounding. I'll keep the rest of my comments to the remix.

I thought the guitars sounded OK. They get buried a bit behind the vocals. The vocals quite pretty far out front, and quite a bit dryer than the instruments.

The vocals could use a more energetic performance. They sound a bit tentative - like you were trying to get through the song without screwing up. It needs a more confident delivery.

Other than that, I thought it sounded pretty good.
 
I've been listening to a few people's mixes on here recently and I can't get over how much louder, richer, warmer and more "presence"-y they sound when compared to mine. Feeling pretty downcast at the moment.
 
Ok, this is the final mix of this track, I've done the best I can with it, and now it's time to move on to another project.

Thanks to Greg L who worked some magic on the drum tracks for me - I think it really helped, and to everybody else who offered their critical listening.




Lifeline (Yellow Allegro Man)

You need no excuse
To throw it all in and cut loose
I’m a Yellow Allegro Man, with a
Bargain Basement mentality
You’re attracted by neon lights
Burger vans and taxi-rank fights
It’s not what I want to be, though I’m
Eager to please
You need the night breeze
To blow me like cobwebs from your hair

Throw me a Lifeline X4

I’m gonna offer a truce
I won’t take your abuse,
But it’s hard to keep my resolve
When my heart leaps if you smile at me
I shouldn’t cry but I do
Cos I know you’ll get what’s coming to you
Knowing when to let go is the
Key to it all
You’re gonna fall
The fact is, I’m probably gonna fall too

Throw me a Lifeline x4

I’ve decided to leave it up to you
But I’ll leave a lifeline for you to pull through
These are your days to be crazed and amazed
You might not need the lifeline but I do.

Throw me a lifeline
(You might not need the lifeline but I do) x4.
 
Dude, glad to help. I think the general drum sound is better, but they sound like they're lagging behind a little. Like the drums themselves are lined up, but the drum tracks as a group are a little late. I think you need to slide them forward a hair.
 
Don't get discouraged. Take the advice given here and keep learning. Every single one of the folks who posts here started out knowing nothing ... but gradually got better and better. There is a LOT to learn, but with patience and discipline, you will.

Mind ... you're still going to make occasional mistakes, because you're working alone and you won't see them as clearly as others. That's what this forum is all about, and Greg is someone to really listen to closely. :)
 
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